Quilter vs. Fender Tonemaster?

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Any thoughts? It's very subjective, I know, but I'd like something a little beefier than my 80xl.

I'm thinking of the Quilter TT with the 202 rather than their Steelaire, which I found lacked warmth.

The new Fenders seem versatile. How are they for steel guitar? They seem to come up for sale a lot so that got me thinking.

Marco Schouten · From: Amsterdam, The Netherlands

All three amps you mentioned are more or less Fender Twin tone based. There are some differences in tone, but they all may not give the warmth you are looking for. Maybe you should go to Evans or Peavey?
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JCH SD-10 with BL XR-16 pickup, Sho-Bud Volume Pedal, Evidence Audio Lyric HG cables, Quilter Steelaire combo

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

It's almost too subjective, in fact. What appeals to one might not come close in another's opinion.

I've managed just fine up to now with Rolands. The signal goes to the sound-board and then to front-of-house. The results have been satisfactory.

Now, though, it's just me here at home. The Roland still soldiers on reliably but moving a bit more 'air' would be nice.

As for tone, I can cite the Big E. Of course I love his work from whatever period but, as ground-breaking as the Black Album was, I infinitely prefer his tone on his later work (the Pennington albums and, most of all, his Christmas record). Is that because of amps or because of the all-pull guitars vs. the push/pull?

Curiously, the best amp I've ever had for steel was my '70s Vibrasonic (sp?). The single 15" JBL was like a boat-anchor but hefting it wasn't an issue when I was thirty-something. Maybe the speaker warmed up that Fender sound a bit.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I have the Quilter TT12. I had a Steelaire and a Tonemaster Twin and "had" is the key to both amps after I tried a TT12.

The TB202 amp is good for both lead guitar (what it was originally aimed at) and Pedal Steel. The TB202 can also be "Fenderish" with some settings.

We would all (or a majority) like to sound like Buddy but it will never happen with any guitar or amp. I gave that up years ago, I just sound like me regardless of guitar or amp.

The Quilter TT12 is the best amp, to me, than any steel amp I've owned.
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GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
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Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

That wasn't what I meant, Jack. I was pointing out that there was a distinct difference in his tone between the early years and later.

Same player, same hands - so, was it amps, guitars, or just the sonic fashion of the day when steels seem to jump out of the mix with bags of high end?

It's an amusing thought - comparisons between me and You-Know-Who!! Smile

Dale Rottacker · From: Walla Walla Washington, USA

Roger I have the Quilter 202 Combo in a 12" and 15", and love what I get out them. There is some very nice warmth there.

I also have Mike Scaggs Bad Dawg p2p with 2-12" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers in it. I'd say it is definitely warmer than the Quilter, but the p2p is a Tube amp so maybe to be expected.

I love them BOTH... this didn't help did it Question

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Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune™
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Samuel Phillippe · From: Douglas Michigan, USA

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Trust you to confuse me, Dale! Smile

Jack: thanks for the heads-up on the TT12. I do hear a lot of good things.

It seems that Samuel misunderstood my post as well. I've worked with three of the Rolands for maybe ten years and, in general, enjoyed the tone I got. I'm not chasing elusive magic or anything of the sort; I'm enjoying playing music as a hobby rather than as the profession it's always been for me. Retirement, I've found, only increases my appetite for learning as much as I can while I have time.

Dale Rottacker · From: Walla Walla Washington, USA

Dale Rottacker · From: Walla Walla Washington, USA

Larry Dering · From: Missouri, USA

Roger, I have a Quilter micropro mach ii that's equipped with a 12 inch bass speaker and it does ok but my Quilter Tone block 101 head and a 12 inch cabinet does much better than my ToneMaster Twin. I'm considering the 202 and deeper matching cabinet.
I might add that the P2P amp mentioned by Dale is one glorious sounding tone monster. I sat in front of Randy Beavers in Kansas last year as he weaved his magic tone all over the audience. Let me tell you it was beyond my expectations. And I do own a Telonics TCA500 15 amp.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Thanks, Larry - that's helpful. Between Jack, Dale and yourself, the Quilter 202 + either 12" or 15" is getting good notices and sounds a good bet.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I'm a confirmed tube amp nut, and have quite a few. One of my favorite sounds is a pretty tweaked-out early-mid 70s Fender Deluxe Reverb with an original JBL D120F. For playing at home or a fairly low-volume gig, it's pretty hard to beat this sound, to me. But it doesn't have enough poop for some gigs, and I just found another that I'll tweak out and set up the same if I'm hell-bent on that sound and am willing to drag two amps to the gig. I imagine the Tonemaster Deluxe has some of that sound, but I have never fooled with it since I keep on finding old Deluxe Reverbs in the same price ballpark. Yes, they generally require some tweaking at first and periodic maintenance thereafter. But if the tubes are not pushed real hard, as in a home setup, a properly set up Deluxe Reverb should last for years without incident. Of course, the Fender sound is very much "the Fender sound", and not everybody's cup of tea.

However - honestly, my go-to pedal steel amp for a lot of gigs (and recording overdubs right out of the Line Out into the board) these days is a Quilter Tone Block 201 into a relatively small 12" speaker cabinet. I know the TB 202 is the flavor-of-the-month - I haven't played one yet but I'm sure it's a fine amp. But I really like the 201 - in fact I just got a backup used for less than $250 shipped. The controls are not initially intuitive for someone used to the typical Bass/Mid/Treble controls. However I have found it hard to get a bad sound out of the 201. I expected to use the Twin Reverb (Surf) setting, but it's too mid-scooped for me. Instead, I use the flat (Full Q) setting, and then there's a single knob to give a bit of mid-scooping or a bit of treble-emphasis, if desired, and then another control to pull back the treble a bit, if desired. I run things almost completely flat for steel - I think I have shed my habit of scooping the mids too much. It's a nice full yet very present sound. The 201 doesn't have reverb, so I use a pedal for that, and a little delay - with that rig, an Electro Harmonix Oceans 11 and a Mad Professor Blue Delay.

I have several speaker cabs that I use with this. If I don't have to be ridiculously loud, and especially if I'm using this for guitar too, I use a Lo Po 12" convertible (closed or open back) cabinet with an Eminence Red Coat Private Jack speaker in it - usually set up closed-back. This is an efficient (101 dB at 1 Watt/1-meter) British-style speaker rated at 50 Watts. I know, just 50 Watts, but with the good efficiency, it puts out a lot of sound without having to crank the amp - enough to easily get over a full modern drum kit and a bass player with a pretty large rig in a decent sized room. Of course, we mic everything, but I never have any trouble hearing myself just from the amp itself - I never run the steel into the monitors. A speaker like this should be more than adequate for home or relatively low-volume gig settings.

I have several other cabs with much higher power speakers. One bit larger Telonics 12" cab with Telonics 12" neo 300-Watt speaker, another 12" cab with a Furlong 12" 300-Watt speaker, and a 15" cab with an Eminence Paul Franklin 15" speaker, again rated around 300 Watts. They all sound good for steel but are a bit stiff for guitar. I pretty much use these when I really need to be loud, which is not that often. I'm not sure why I have 4 of these cabinets, I guess they just accumulated in the process of trying some things out.

I'm sure the TB 202 would be excellent also. I've tried a good number of Quilter amps, and they all sounded good to me. But I really like the sound and grab-and-go of the Tone Blocks I've tried. The guitar player in one of my bands often uses the 50-Watt Quilter Highway 101 in the same form factor. I just want more clean power on tap than that. But it does sound good.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

An interesting read, Dave: thank you. You certainly have some gear lying around, haven't you? Smile

Before my ill-fated move to England, I cleared everything out out - I got rid of guitars, amps, even my lovely Zum Encore - in an effort to become less encumbered. Now, of course, I'm regretting it.

I want clean power and, now I'm no longer at the whim of a music director, I can please myself. I have little or no need for effects, but a hint of reverb would spice up my practice sessions. I'm told the 202 has reverb.

I did find the Steelaire tricky when looking for warmth. It was too bright and a bit thin for me. I just listened to a TT15 demo and was impressed.

The unknown quantity will be how the Telecaster might sound through one. The need for a crisp guitar tone may push me towards a TT12. Any thoughts?

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I see a lot of posts on the Quilter Facebook page of guitar players abandoning their heavy tube amps for the Quilters.

The lead guitar player we had when we were with George Hamilton IV, show that you attended, was seriously considering getting rid of his 65 BF Pro Reverb and getting a Quilter TT12. He is a "must have Fender tube amp type who liked the Quilter. He moved back north (Davenport IA area) last year and retired from playing out due to age and medical.
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GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit

Joel Jackson · From: Detroit

Roger, I gave in and bought a used TT12 combo a few weeks ago. Did a few gigs on steel/tele with it. Both sounded fantastic. A little bit of earth drive with the tele. First time i've gotten killer tele tone from a solid state amp. Good job Quilter!

Jim Cooley · From: The 'Ville, Texas, USA

Of course this is extremely subjective, however...I have 12" and 15" Quilter 202 Block Dock cabinets, a rack mounted Steelaire head, and a 1972 Fender Silverface Twin Reverb. The Twin's chassis is mounted in a head cabinet. I have my choice of speaker configurations with all three amps. I have tried several speakers with each one.

I've always been an admitted tube snob and 15" speaker guy. However, I haven't played through anything except the Quilter Block Dock with a 202 and TT12 speaker in quite a while. I do use a Black Box immediately after the steel. I prefer the 202's Vint(age) setting. The FullQ (middle) setting on the 202 is a little too sterile for me. To my ears, it actually sounds very similar to the Steelaire. A couple of months ago, I experimented with the Steelaire's EQ to see if I could duplicate the 202's tone. I came closer than I expected, but not close enough.

There is a definite relationship among the 202's Master, Gain, and Limiter controls. It will probably take a little experimenting, and there is some versatility, but once you find that sweet spot, you're there. I played through the 15" Block Dock until I found that sweet spot with the 12. Now, for me, it blows the 15 away. Both together are pretty tasty, too. I now have 12" Tommy Huff cabinet with a second TT12 speaker. I'll post a thread about that cabinet when I've had the chance to use it more. I tried both 12" cabinets with the 202 for the first time this morning; pretty impressive.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I appreciate all of your detailed responses. I'm pretty sure that the 202 and a 12" cab will fulfill my needs.

I say '202' because I'd rather have the reverb. I'm not big on effects in general and the compromised ones in my Roland 80xl are more than I ever want. Now there's no longer a music director demanding distortion or some such sonic nonsense, I can please myself.

First, though, is the matter of a new 12-string steel. That's the immediate objective but it's not made any easier by supply-chain delays that seem to be affecting all areas of commerce.

Thanks, everyone.

Dale Rottacker · From: Walla Walla Washington, USA

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Dale

Would you share Andrea's email address with me. I need to encourage her to demand that you have a clear-out of amplifiers and for you to offer them at rock-bottom prices to your friends. Smile

Dale Rottacker · From: Walla Walla Washington, USA

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

Okay, I'll be the outlier. (Again? Laughing

) I own both (sort of) and prefer the Tonemaster. To my ears, the blockdock cab is not deep enough to get the big warm sound of a twin reverb. By contrast, the Tonemaster sounds like a Twin Reverb. This takes into account the fact that the sound of Twin Reverbs varies widely, even among two twins of the same vintage/set-up/etc. Some Twins sound better than others. Better or less good, though, a Twin sounds like a Twin, and the Tonemaster has that sound. Going into a pair of 12s the Tonemaster can also get louder without pushing through the clean headroom as quickly as the TB does.

You asked about a Tele, Roger. Both handle it well, but the Twin does have a second channel, which the TB 202 does not, so you can have one channel set up for each (assuming you use an off-board reverb for whichever is plugged into the first channel).

I say "sort of" because my Quilter does not have the TT-12 speaker. It was not the tone I was after. I currently have an Eminence basslite in there. I also have a Celestion Copperback 250 in a slightly larger 12" cab (Fender SC-112) which has a bigger sound when necessary with the Quilter. But then, I'd likely just bring the Tonemaster.

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