Supro/Certano Install

Mathew Peluso · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Hey all, I just picked up a ‘58 Supro Comet. I’m going to install a Certano bender on it but it looks like I’ll need to remove the riveted metal logo in order to do this. I’m not particularly handy outside of pedal steel maintenance. Can anyone advise on the most careful approach to this?

Noah Miller · From: Rocky Hill, CT

It's nailed in with those two tacks. Not as bad as undoing a rivet, but not a walk in the park either. You'll have to force something between the tag and the body and gradually pry it up, and this will undoubtedly damage the finish and/or the tag in the process - though if you're going to put a bender on it, I'm guessing that doesn't matter to you anyway.

Jeff Highland · From: New South Wales, Australia

Flush cut nippers (like fret pullers) would pull the tacks without having to pry under the tag
_________________
Duesenberg Fairytale
1949 Supro Supreme
1950 National New Yorker
2008 Highland Baritone Weissenborn
2020 Highland New Yorker.
2020 Highland Mohan Veena
2021 Highland Weissencone

Mathew Peluso · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Ah so they aren't rivets. That makes things much easier! And using end cutting pliers is a great call. Thanks so much for the quick replies!

Noah Miller · From: Rocky Hill, CT

There is almost no chance you'll get pliers/pullers/cutters/nippers/etc to grab onto the tack heads. They're slightly domed but barely proud of the tag.

Jeff Highland · From: New South Wales, Australia

NOT regular pliers Flush cut nippers which are ground flat on the face so they can slide under the head of a tack etc. My fret removal tool would work.
_________________
Duesenberg Fairytale
1949 Supro Supreme
1950 National New Yorker
2008 Highland Baritone Weissenborn
2020 Highland New Yorker.
2020 Highland Mohan Veena
2021 Highland Weissencone

Noah Miller · From: Rocky Hill, CT

I understand; those won't work without scratching up the logo plate. You can make marks in the finish or the plate, but not neither.

David Ball · From: North Carolina High Country

If you were very careful, you could use a small drill to drill the nails out. It would take a drill press I would think, and I'd mask off the plate first in case the bit wandered.

Masking off the plate first might allow using a fret puller to be used without damaging the plate too.

Dave

Jack Hanson · From: San Luis Valley, USA

I would start with my set of thin feeler gauges, very carefully working the thinnest gauge under the tag near the tack, gradually progressing to the next-thickest and then the next, attempting to gradually raise the tack to the point where I can grab below the tack head with my fret puller as Jeff describes above. Be sure to protect the thin embossed plaque with a piece of thin plastic or cardboard once you progress to the puller. Attaching a layer of low-tack masking tape all 'round the logo before you begin wouldn't hurt, either.

But that's just me. And what would I know, since I'm just a dumb turnip truck driver? There's more'n one way to skin a cat (or remove a logo).

Good luck!

Mathew Peluso · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

For those that might be curious, I was able to remove the Supro logo plate by wedging a really thin guitar pick underneath then using a jeweler’s flathead to carefully work it up. No damage to the body (that wasn’t previously there) and the plate is still in great shape, just the slightest little bend that isn’t very obvious.

Thanks again for the tips! Now to install the benders.

Eric Dahlhoff · From: Point Arena, California

Well done! Very Happy

_________________
"To live outside the law you must be honest." (Bob Dylan)

Jack Hanson · From: San Luis Valley, USA

Good job, Mathew!

Mark Eaton · Posted 19 Jan 2022 11:40 am

Matthew, are you going to keep the logo for posterity or would you be willing to sell it?

My parents bought a Comet for me from the Bay Area studio where I took lessons as a kid in the ‘60s. It weirdly never had a logo even though it was a new guitar. Neither did the matching amp (long gone).

I didn’t think much about it as a 10 year old kid, but later it struck me that the studio owners must have gotten a bunch of these to sell to students for some kind of discount from Supro or a distributor.

_________________
Mark

Mathew Peluso · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Hey, Mark. I was planning to relocate it to the opposite side of the body but if I change my mind I’ll definitely let you know!

They’re great little steels, aren’t they?

Mark Eaton · Posted 22 Jan 2022 12:04 pm

Well, if you change your mind about relocating the badge - give me a holler!

I've had the badgeless guitar for - and this getting scary - 57 years. And I understand completely about hanging on to the badge. For that matter, maybe I should buy a Certano bender and see how I like it.

That era of lap steel lessons when I started around 1964 - I was at the tail end, The original Supro company went out of business in 1968 so it was a dying breed. The co-owner of the music studio was going door-to-door in the San Jose area with a lap steel and a small amp giving demos trying to sign up steel guitar pupils. My two older brothers had zero interest in it, but I was fascinated with the sound and my parents signed me up. For the first several weeks the kids would play loaner acoustic flattop squarenecks made by Harmony and Kay in the '40s and '50s that were built like Sherman tanks to be able to withstand abuse. I stuck with the lessons for 2 1/2 to 3 years but I was getting way into sports and eventually burned out and lost interest.

The studio owner go me started on some pedal steel toward the end but it didn't really "take" at the time. That's one of those big regrets - I didn't stick with it back then.

The Comet is a good guitar. But not the greatest for classic Hawaiian or traditional country and western swing. But as most of here know, the Strat guys liked them later to rob the pickups for their "Coodercasters." I would play the Comet in our local garage band as a kid on Rock numbers and distort the Supro amp to get a lapstyle version of Link Wray, but as a 12-13 year old kid I didn't have the foresight to try to make something out of what I was doing - and in the early to mid '70s when I would see David Lindley playing Supros with Jackson Browne, I'd say "damn - why didn't I think of that!" I was playing Rock lap steel probably 4-5 years prior to Mr. Dave being inspired by seeing Freddie Roulette and then hitting the pawn shops for lap steel guitars. Wink

_________________
Mark

Jeff Bell · From: California, USA

Hi Matthew. Great job on removing the plate so cleanly. Please let us know how the install of the benders work for you. I have a 1960 Supro Supreme that I was considering adding Certano benders to. It looks like the bridge on mine is similar to the bridge on yours and I was wondering if that would work. Thanks!

Mathew Peluso · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Hey, thanks Jeff!

I've been meaning to post an update here. The good news is that the Certano benders are wonderful! It's taking a little time for the muscle memory to develop from what my brain already knows via pedal steel, but I'm getting there.

The slightly bad news is that the installation wasn't quite as straightforward as I had hoped. I followed the instructions and attaching it to the lap steel was simple. However, I didn't take into consideration that the string spacing isn't 100% compatible. I found a solution sort of by accident.

Before installing, I lined up the middle of the base between strings 2 and 3. I was very careful about this but apparently not careful enough. It was slightly off center and I was pretty frustrated with myself. I then realized that the string spacing is much narrower on the benders compared to my lap steel. I was pretty upset at this point.

BUT, I improvised and discovered a workaround. I took the nylon washer from the string 3 bender and moved it to the inside of the assembly. It worked! The string spacing isn't perfect but definitely not a problem now. String 3 is still close enough to the pickup pole that it has no negative effect on output or tone. I double-checked with David at Certano about using Tri-Flow in place of the washer and he confirmed that a little bit of lubricant once in awhile is perfectly fine.

So my advice, line up the whole bender prior to disassembling. Feed a string through one of the benders and get it to line up with the bridge/pickup pole. Then when you disassemble, move the opposite bender's nylon washer to the inside. This will give you a little extra space between those two strings and it'll be as close to perfect as it can be!

Another tip, I'm using D'Addario NYXL strings for the benders. I've been stress-testing the strings while I get the lever positions dialed in and have no issues with breakage or pitch return (once the strings are stretched enough). These bridges can't really be modified so I was taking a chance. I may install a roller nut of some type but I'd rather not do any further modifications for now. Attaching some pics below!

Mathew Peluso · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Alternatively, you could just move both nylon washers to the inner part of the benders and then line everything up before installing. I would do that but it would require filling and re-drilling the holes.

K Maul · From: Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL

I did this with a Supro double 6. I just use some Teflon lube on the string contact points before a gig. Never had a string hang up or break. The Certanos are really well machined and work very smoothly.
_________________
Kevin Maul: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Decophonic, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing.

Jeff Bell · From: California, USA

That looks good, Matthew. Glad you were able to figure it out. Regarding your advice, was that a result of your not being lined up exactly, or is this something you think I should do no matter what? My Supro Supreme has a narrow string spacing as it is. My concern is the space I have behind the bridge plate. I asked David at Certano about this and he said 1" of clearance would be okay.

Also, what do you all do with the case? I have an original case that has no additional height clearance. I guess a new case would be the solution, but I really like the original.

Mathew Peluso · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Mathew Peluso · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Forum Index > Steel Without Pedals		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic