What a mistake ordering a lap steel with a bender

Steve Hudson · From: weymouth Massachusetts, USA

So, ive loved the idea of a duesenburg lap steel with the benders, for along time, my teacher has one, and he loves it, So ive always wanted one. im 50 and back problems forced me to really play lap steel more and enjoy it more.
Well one day i noticed that on ebay and reverb is a lap steel that you can custom order with a set of benders, , well eventually 900 bucks with tax and shipping later i ordered one, I asked the builder if we could add some locking tuners as well, which he said no problem, so i paid extra for that. well finally almost 2 months after ordering, my custom bender lap steel arrived today, I was literally like a kid on Christmas.

The the other shoe dropped. The locking tuners were there, but they were the ones with the tops need to be screwed with either REALLY strong fingers or more likely a screwdriver, but since the tuners are put on sideways the screw tops face inward toward each other making it damn near impossible to change strings with just two hands. Kind of defeating the purpose of getting locking tuners.

The bridge was at such an angle that it literally is forcing the 1st ad 6th strings to slice the wood in the headstock more and more over time, it looks like the spot the tuners were put in at was lower as if it were put higher in the headstock, they would likely snap the wood. I posted a pic as well.

Now my worry was the stress of this continuing to cut into the headstock and the position of the tuners was gonna tear this neck to crap at some point.

Now next up is the worst part, so the tuners on this uses the pitch witch benders, so a 2nd and third string bender. However t while the 2nd string bender worked just fine the third string bender was so low anything past like a 10th of a bend, put you instantly resting on top of the string and bridge. The bridge is a gibson bar type.

I instantly sent this back for a refund. Im appalled by this, and yeah upset as well.

Anyway, SO now to the real meat of the post, i am on troy brenningmeyers site as a member, i like his lessons alot, and he had a video involving the Certano Benders, and adding one to a recording king new entry level lap steel. i kind of liked the recording kings as they are certainly not rogue level bottom of the barrel stuff,, So i ordered one on amazon, to come in next week, and if i like it, ill order the certano benders to add myself,

Has anyone used certano Benders before? did you like them etc? any known problems?

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Locking tuners that don't lock from the back with a headstock like that???

I don't care for headstock that hog out that much wood anyway.

I am building a 6 string lap steel right now that will use 3 benders and a wrist LOWER that I made. I am using the hipshot products. One will be activated by the right knee and the other two by palm levers.

If you don't have a roller bridge, you will have a problem with pitch on the return. Also the angle from the bridge to the bender should not be too severe.

Jeff Highland · From: New South Wales, Australia

I would never use that type of locking tuners on a slot head.
But they would probably have worked better if the strings had been wound over the pegs not under, and with locking tuners you should always put at least half a wrap of string on the peg rather than having the string leaving straight from the hole as it appears on some of these.
_________________
Duesenberg Fairytale
1949 Supro Supreme
1950 National New Yorker
2008 Highland Baritone Weissenborn
2020 Highland New Yorker.
2020 Highland Mohan Veena
2021 Highland Weissencone

Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Leaving straight from the hole (in fact, pulling the string taut before tightening the lock) should give you a half wrap when it comes up to tension...you don't want much more than that or you lose part of the benefit of the tuner, which is no extra wraps to slip and cause tuning issues ...
that's how all of mine work, anyway....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEBtC0lxFKc
_________________
www.facebook.com/swingaliband & a few more....
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor

Jeff Highland · From: New South Wales, Australia

I agree you don't want multiple wraps, but it looks like some of these only got to 90 degrees and that puts a lot of bending stress on the string as it leaves the hole
_________________
Duesenberg Fairytale
1949 Supro Supreme
1950 National New Yorker
2008 Highland Baritone Weissenborn
2020 Highland New Yorker.
2020 Highland Mohan Veena
2021 Highland Weissencone

Bill Groner · From: QUAKERTOWN, PA

I can certainly feel for you. How does the rest of the steel look overall? Are you happy with it? (the look, not the tuners, benders, and head) Maybe something can be salvaged from what you have? Did you contact the builder?
Did you see any pictures of other steels he built with benders before you custom ordered yours? Maybe he will give you your money back when you explain the problems with his build?
_________________
Currently own, 6 Groner-tone lap steels, one 1953 Alamo Lap steel, Roland Cube, Fender Champion 40

Steve Hudson · From: weymouth Massachusetts, USA

K Maul · From: Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL

Obviously a poor design. That's a shame. I hope it works out for you.
I have a Certano bender on an old Supro and I love it. Please note I do not use a roller bridge or a roller nut. I have it tuned to a standard D bending 2nd+3rd. My nut is a slippery Polymer so the strings glide pretty well on it however I do lubricate with Teflon lube as I do the metal bridge. I've had no string breakage problems.

_________________
Kevin Maul: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Decophonic, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing.

Robert Allen · From: Tennessee, USA

This is a 10 string Melbert with a Certano bender. String thru body, Melbert custom gauged roller bridge and roller nut. I've worked with both the Doosy Multibender and the Certano. The Mutltibender can raise or lower strings and has the bridge rollers built in. The Certano only raises the pitch and requires a separate roller bridge. The Certano has a greater pitch range than the Multibender. Each one has its own installation quirks but overall about the same amount of time and neither is difficult if you have some experience working on instruments.

Cliff Swanson · From: Raleigh, NC

Just adding a positve vote for the Certano benders. I have them on two lap steels and like them a lot. There is a learning curve for getting the hang of using the benders, blocking, and picking all at the same time but a bit of dedication overcomes those technical issues. Sorry to hear about your bender adventure thus far but I encourage you to persist once you have a steel that is properly outfitted.
_________________
Cliff

Tom Keller · From: Greeneville, TN, USA

I used to own one of the Bigsby palm pedals and I found it impossible to keep my hand on the pedals and do any blocking. I had to make the decision to block or use the pedals.

Gene Tani · From: Pac NW

Sorry to hear about this. I think everybody that has bought at least a few instruments has had negative experiences. I've had defective trussrods (stripped or completely slack) on a few, I was more than disappointed.

One thing you could try, if the nut and "bridge saddle" are pieces of brass/steel/aluminum rod, is to put larger diameter rod on there. I've done this on a few lap steels I think it would give you a smidge more clearance where it's cutting into the wood and probably (unfortunately) increase string friction.
_________________
- keyless Sonny Jenkins laps stay in tune forever!; Carter PSG
- The secret sauce: polyester sweatpants to buff your picks, cheapo Presonus channel strip for preamp/EQ/compress/limiter, Diet Mountain Dew

Jeff Montgomery · From: Oklahoma, USA

Turning the winds on the tuners to wrap "over" may give you enough clearance. It looks like the wraps are "under" now.

Steve Hudson · From: weymouth Massachusetts, USA

Steve Hudson · From: weymouth Massachusetts, USA

Cappone dAngelo · From: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Jeff Highland · From: New South Wales, Australia

They may not have worked having the strings over the post, since they are auto lockers which only work in one direction. Would have needed the tuners interchanged between treble and bass.
Absolutely the wrong choice
_________________
Duesenberg Fairytale
1949 Supro Supreme
1950 National New Yorker
2008 Highland Baritone Weissenborn
2020 Highland New Yorker.
2020 Highland Mohan Veena
2021 Highland Weissencone

Johnie King · From: Tennessee, USA

The Jackson stee guitar company has some good bender for lap steel.

Allan Revich · From: Victoria, BC

@Steve Hudson, did this work out for? Full refund?

Shad Peters · From: Indiana, USA

Howdy folks! I don’t really get on forums much any more but I just very recently stumbled upon this thread, and after reading it I thought I’d join the forum and chime in. I’m the fella who built the lap steel in the original post. I don’t like drama or stirring the pot, but given that it's my work in question I would like to say just a few things, and I will do my utmost to just present them as straight as I can.

First, in the spirit of honesty, I'll say I am a little frustrated by this thread. I am frustrated because Steve never once reached out to me with these concerns before opening his return. I was never emailed, messaged, called, or anything. Steve opened a return on eBay, which was all automated and approved automatically, and the first time I had any reason to think that Steve was unhappy was when the return showed up on my door. The moment is showed up I went back through eBay, saw where Steve had opened the return, and refunded him that same afternoon, but I also found where there was a little note attached to the return expressing his grievances- that was the first time I heard he had any issues with the build. After that I sent him a message on eBay just to reach out, address his concerns, and try to leave things on a good note. That message was never answered, which I'm not upset about, but what is puzzling, and a bit vexing to me, is why all the details of his unhappiness were brought to light here, on a internet forum, but were never revealed to me, the one person who could have done something about it and made it right, which I would have been happy to do given the chance.

All that said, while I am a bit frustrated, I am not writing this from a place of anger, I simply want to illuminate the full set of circumstances, and since this interaction has now been brought into the public sphere where anyone can read it, I figured I ought to share my side of things.

I would first like to comment on the locking tuner/string issue. I’ll start by saying I’m not big on locking tuners. In the years since I turned 15 I have probably built 150 or more different instruments, and I could probably count the times I've used locking tuners on one hand. Not that I have a problem with them, I just typically, personally, find them unnecessary. All that to say I’m not super familiar with the different types out there, so when I Installed these at Steve's request, I was simply looking for a quality set that wouldn’t cost him much more than my typical stock tuners, not at the particular locking mechanisms, which I did not realize were so widely varied. Had I realized there was as much variation I would have looked for something different. That said, I didn't have any issues stringing or unstringing this guitar, I did it several times before shipping because I wanted to make sure they wouldn't be an issue, and they were no fuss. The tuners have a locking direction, and a unlocking direction, making the use of a screw driver pretty unnecessary. As best as I can tell Steve never actually tried to do anything with the strings, but just assumed that it would be impossible to change them. I did not find that to be the case, in actuality one could simply keep backing off the tuner after the string loosened and they unlocked on their own.

What did catch me by surprise though was that the lock and unlock directions were the reverse of my typical winding layout. That caused interference on strings 1 and 6. At that point I had to decide between making the tuners work, or ordering something else and waiting another week for a new set to arrive. I opted to not keep Steve waiting any longer and to simply file a couple groves for the string to pass through to keep them from binding up. That might not have been the right choice, and I own up to that, but it seemed like the prudent thing to do at the time. In retrospect I should have just fully reshaped that area of the headstock to make it look better, which is what I ended up having to do after he sent it back anyway, and if Steve would have reached out to me I would have been happy to do that, but as I aforementioned, I had no idea it bothered him.

The other issue that has been brought up is the clearance of the levers over the strings. I will own that problem, but I have since taken care of it. I had an issue with one batch of levers I made, I ordered 3mm stock, and was sent 2mm stock instead, by the time I realized it I had already sent quite a few sets out the door. They would start out fine for several cycles (enough time for me to get the unit set up without a hitch), but within a very short period afterwards they would start to bend closer and closer to the strings. I had a couple customers express this issue to me and had to figure out what was going on. I initially thought that the issue was being caused by a recent switch to heavier gauge strings, however, I have since learned it was a supplier mistake. I have since offered free replacement levers to anyone who has had an issue with those. And again, I would have been happy to offer those replacements to Steve had he informed me of the problem.

I do my best to work with all of my customers, and I would have happily addressed the issues, but I didn’t know about any of them until the return showed up at my door. I didn’t even know the return was coming, let alone what the grievances were, so there was no opportunity to resolve anything. Steve seems like a nice enough guy, and I don’t have any beef with him, but there was no communication from him about any problems, and that's not on me. I’m mainly putting this reply up here because I have made probably close to 90 of these lap steels, and the vast vast majority of people I have heard from, love their instrument and have nothing but good things to say about them, It just seems like a shame that the only coverage they have on this website is one (in my opinion somewhat colored) bad experience.

That's my two cents. Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read this.

Greg Forsyth · From: Colorado, USA

Hello all,

I'm in the process of building an 8 string lap steel (my 2nd build) and this posting has been one that has been very interesting to me. Forum members are very good with regards to sharing their experiences and advise, and I learn alot about what I'm trying to do by reading the Forum.

With that said, the reason I'm writing is to commend both Steve Hudson and Shad Peters.

Steve wrote of his frustrations with the guitar he recieved from Shad. I'd like to commend Steve for being fortright about the situation, and not "outing" Shad as the builder. No name calling, talking trash etc.

Shad did the decent thing by writing in and letting us know he was the builder, and letting us know his part of the situation, and also owning up to the mistakes he made. Takes a lot of (well you know) to write us, and also doing so in a polite manner without trying to offend anyone, and to admit he had a learning curve about using locking tuners, and also correcting the problem with his string bender levers.

Mike Neer · From: NJ

I think it’s always good to remember that we are all just individuals trying to do our best with things, whether building, teaching, playing etc. There is not a ton of precedent and sometimes the learning curve is a little steep. I like to think of steel guitarists as problem solvers, and so are the builders of these instruments. Sometimes our failures drive us to do better. That’s what keeps me going.

Honesty is always the best policy.

David Ball · From: North Carolina High Country

Forum Index > Steel Without Pedals		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic