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Topic: Justice S10 Jr vs Zum Encore |
Zach Turner
From:
Carmel Valley, California, USA
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Posted 29 Nov 2021 6:15 pm |
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Hi,
I have been playing 6 string guitar for about 7+ years now and I am now looking to get into pedal steel.
I have heard a lot of good things things about the Encore and the price is very good although the wait is rather long.
I've also seen positive responses to Justice Guitars. Their S10 Jr looks enticing, in particular their new model with a 3up/3down changer and 3x4 codependent. The lead time is quite a bit less than the Encore. I wonder that since Justice is a less known brand, will the resale value be as good if I decide to upgrade down the road? The Encore is excellent in the resale regard.
I know the Mullen Discovery is well liked, but it's about $900 more than the other two and I'm not sure why?
So basically, does anyone have experience with the new Justice S10Jr and/or should I wait for the Encore?
Zach |
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John Hyland
From:
South Australia
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Posted 30 Nov 2021 12:05 am
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| These guitars certainly are economical. I don’t really know how they are made at that price. |
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Patrick Huey
From:
Nacogdoches, Texas, USA
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Posted 30 Nov 2021 4:26 am
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The Mullen Discovery is a “flight model†professional guitar, not meant to be an economy model but a pro model built to meet the weight restrictions of airlines.
_________________
Pre RP Mullen D10 8/7, Zum 3/4, Carter S-10 3/4, previous Cougar SD-10 3/4 & GFI S-10 3/4, Fender Steel King, 2 Peavey Session 500's, Peavey Nashville 400, Boss DD-3, Profex-II, Hilton Digital Sustain, '88 Les Paul Custom,Epiphone MBIBG J-45, Fender Strat & Tele's, Takamine acoustics, Marshall amps, Boss effects, Ibanez Tube Screamer, and it all started with an old cranky worn out Kay acoustic you could slide a Mack truck between the strings and fretboard on!! |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 30 Nov 2021 4:41 am
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Zach.. Either will make a great guitar to earn on... Here's my take... The Justice comes with 3 and 4,, Plenty to get you started, and enough to make a lot of great music in the future... However, as any steel player will tell you, after a short while, you will be looking for more changes... the Encore comes standard with 5 levers, and if ordered with a 4th pedal, its only an $80 upcharge according to the site... Thats big IMHO.. Pricing might have changed by now so be aware.. In any case, the guitar will accommodate a 4 and 5 copedent, not sure if the Justice will do that.. Also, when you are getting close to the $2000 range, you are heading into the price range of several pro model s10 guitars, that can be had with NO wait... Believe me, most used pedal steel guitars I have bought over the years were in very good shape and would certainly outlast me... New is good of course, but a lightly used clean pro model is often a better [and faster] deal... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Bruce Bjork
From:
Southern Coast of Maine
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Posted 30 Nov 2021 6:54 am
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I’d go with the Justice.
_________________
Banjo, Dobro, Guild D-40, Telecaster, Justice Pro Lite 3x5, BOSS Katana 100, Peavey Nashville 112 in a Tommy Huff cabinet, Spark, FreeLoader, Baby Bloomer, Peterson StroboPlus HD, Stage One VP.
"Use the talents you possess; the woods would be very silent indeed if no birds sang but the best" |
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Bruce Bjork
From:
Southern Coast of Maine
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Posted 30 Nov 2021 6:55 am
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I’d go with the Justice.
_________________
Banjo, Dobro, Guild D-40, Telecaster, Justice Pro Lite 3x5, BOSS Katana 100, Peavey Nashville 112 in a Tommy Huff cabinet, Spark, FreeLoader, Baby Bloomer, Peterson StroboPlus HD, Stage One VP.
"Use the talents you possess; the woods would be very silent indeed if no birds sang but the best" |
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Ron Hogan
From:
Nashville, TN, usa
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Zach Turner
From:
Carmel Valley, California, USA
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Posted 30 Nov 2021 9:44 am
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| Bob Carlucci wrote: |
| Zach.. Either will make a great guitar to earn on... Here's my take... The Justice comes with 3 and 4,, Plenty to get you started, and enough to make a lot of great music in the future... However, as any steel player will tell you, after a short while, you will be looking for more changes... the Encore comes standard with 5 levers, and if ordered with a 4th pedal, its only an $80 upcharge according to the site... Thats big IMHO.. Pricing might have changed by now so be aware.. In any case, the guitar will accommodate a 4 and 5 copedent, not sure if the Justice will do that.. Also, when you are getting close to the $2000 range, you are heading into the price range of several pro model s10 guitars, that can be had with NO wait... Believe me, most used pedal steel guitars I have bought over the years were in very good shape and would certainly outlast me... New is good of course, but a lightly used clean pro model is often a better [and faster] deal... bob |
Hi, that is a good point about the 4x5 on the Encore. I am considering buying used. I have done several used purchases for 6 string guitars and amps that all went great--great gear at very good price. I do like the idea of getting a full on pro model. Perhaps I should just watch the used market here as it would be faster than waiting for one of these models new. I am somewhat concerned about buying a used steel as I have not played one before so I do not know what one should feel like, but I have studied up a lot on their parts so I know what to look for.
Other than used, what are the pro model s10s in the $2000 range available now? I see that North County Steels and Steel Guitars Canada has a GFI Expo in stock, but the dealer price is around $2900 unless I can get one of them down. For $2900, it would seem much better getting a beast of a used steel.
Thanks for your help,
Zach |
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Zach Turner
From:
Carmel Valley, California, USA
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Posted 30 Nov 2021 9:47 am
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Hi Ron,
I have seen that one. However, paying more for a steel used than new is a tough pill to swallow, especially as in that price range there should be a lot of used pro steels. Plus, the seller is in Nashville and will not ship, while I am in California.
Zach |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 30 Nov 2021 12:53 pm
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I have an early S-10Jr. It is very well made, sounds great and plays great. The new 3/3 changer is a fantastic improvement, though my simpler changer works just fine.
_________________
Kevin Maul: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Decophonic, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Landon Johnson
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 30 Nov 2021 3:16 pm
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| I can't attest to the Encore but I love my Justice so much I'm ordering another within the week. Thanks for the interest in the GFI by the way and hope you made it safely home |
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Zach Turner
From:
Carmel Valley, California, USA
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Posted 30 Nov 2021 7:54 pm
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| Patrick Huey wrote: |
| The Mullen Discovery is a “flight model†professional guitar, not meant to be an economy model but a pro model built to meet the weight restrictions of airlines. |
That is what I've heard people saying. However, I am unsure what differentiates this "professional model" as compared to the other "student models". People often say that a professional model will have at least an 3x4 and adjustable copendent, all pull changer with a good number of ups and downs, etc. However, these "student" guitars have those things too, like pro guitars such as the Mullen or the GFI Expo etc. So what really is the difference? Materials, build quality?
I have been wondering this for a while.
Zach |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 30 Nov 2021 8:19 pm
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Materials, fit and finish, precision of engineering, what corners are cut in construction, among other things. That is exactly what the difference is. Drive a Lexus or Tesla, then try a Fiat and you'll get what I’m talking about.
_________________
Kevin Maul: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Decophonic, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Landon Johnson
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 30 Nov 2021 8:23 pm
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It's probably a combo - it might be that the tuners they use on guitars like Carter Starter and some others might not hold up to the rigors of road use --- cabinet drop may be an issue --- tuning stability and tighter tolerances in manufacturing?
But you are right though - look at the Justice Jr and Discovery and you'll find many of the parts are interchangeable bwtween models of their respective manufacturers. But the 'student' models may use powder coating and other tactics to cover blemishes in matrials they could not polish or leave bare as they would for a stage model. The Justice Jr neck is powder coated; the pro models aren't.
If I were just starting out I would be all over a Discovery, Encore or Justice Jr... I bet I'd not regret either decision as a newbie. But once I started playing out I'd want something a little more rugged and dependable, and perhaps better looking with a bit more 'stage cred'.
I've been at it 4 years and am just now figuring out what I like.... I'm still just getting started! |
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Dick Hitchcock
From:
Wayne, Nebraska
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Posted 3 Dec 2021 6:12 am
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Just a thought from a Justice owner...There are a lot of Fred's guitars out there, and rightly so...Fred (And now Ron) has been building them for a few years now,
and it's rare to see one in the for-sale index.. Just sayin!!
_________________
Justice Pro Lite 4x5.... NV112.... Steel seat. |
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Dean Holman
From:
Branson MO
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Posted 3 Dec 2021 6:12 am
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| Mullen uses the same changer they use on the Royal Precision. Not many corners were cut making the discovery. Pro quality in small package, but reliable and dependable. Encores’ are wonderful guitars, maybe a little more scaled down than the discovery. The Justice Jr looks pretty good. I would definitely get one with 3 pedals and 4 knees. Anyway you go, you can’t go wrong with any of them. It just depends on how much your willing to spend. Good luck to you! |
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Zach Turner
From:
Carmel Valley, California, USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2021 10:17 am
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| Dean Holman wrote: |
| Mullen uses the same changer they use on the Royal Precision. Not many corners were cut making the discovery. Pro quality in small package, but reliable and dependable. Encores’ are wonderful guitars, maybe a little more scaled down than the discovery. The Justice Jr looks pretty good. I would definitely get one with 3 pedals and 4 knees. Anyway you go, you can’t go wrong with any of them. It just depends on how much your willing to spend. Good luck to you! |
I'm sure the discovery is a great instrument. As you say, all of them are probably pretty good. I'm actually currently looking into a GFI Expo at the moment.
Zach |
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Landon Johnson
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2021 1:28 pm
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There are three D-10s on there at the moment I think... between $3650 and $2999... haven't seen any S-10s on there or I'd have bought it 
As you know, I have the Ultra D-10... I think the Expo is basically the same with the exception of the rollers... steel on the Ultra; Aluminum on the Expo.
I was selling mine not because of quality or playability - simply the weight. It stays in tune and is consistent in every way - has a bit more string definition than my Justice but the Justice just fits me better. I've decided to keep it for the time being as a backup but if and when you decide to move to a doubleneck look me up! |
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Thomas Stone
From:
San Francisco
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Posted 4 Dec 2021 2:40 pm
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| Regarding the Zum Encore, I think the compromises they have made to keep the price down are almost entirely cosmetic: no polished parts, no fancy woods, no inlays, no glossy lacquer. But in terms of function and tone, it delivers at a very high level. |
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Zach Turner
From:
Carmel Valley, California, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2021 4:45 pm
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| Landon Johnson wrote: |
There are three D-10s on there at the moment I think... between $3650 and $2999... haven't seen any S-10s on there or I'd have bought it
As you know, I have the Ultra D-10... I think the Expo is basically the same with the exception of the rollers... steel on the Ultra; Aluminum on the Expo.
I was selling mine not because of quality or playability - simply the weight. It stays in tune and is consistent in every way - has a bit more string definition than my Justice but the Justice just fits me better. I've decided to keep it for the time being as a backup but if and when you decide to move to a doubleneck look me up! |
I'm sure your Ultra is a great instrument--I never doubted that. Thanks for your offer and accommodation.
I'll let you know if I am interested in the future.
AFAIK, the only difference between the Ultra and Expo is the finishes on the guitar with the Expo having powder coated metal while the Ultra has polished metal. |
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Zach Turner
From:
Carmel Valley, California, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2021 4:49 pm
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| Thomas Stone wrote: |
| Regarding the Zum Encore, I think the compromises they have made to keep the price down are almost entirely cosmetic: no polished parts, no fancy woods, no inlays, no glossy lacquer. But in terms of function and tone, it delivers at a very high level. |
Yeah, I've heard the Encore is a great instrument. Lots of good ones out there, I've just got to track one down.
Cool seeing that you live in SF; I'm under 2 hours to there. It's cool to see all these pedal steel players in the area as I thought there were not any before joining the forum. Even b0b is from NorCal too. Pretty cool! |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2021 7:38 pm
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I've played an Encore and a few GFI's owned by students of mine.
My impression: the GFI is a very bright guitar. It gets a classic country sound. Meanwhile, the Encore has a fatter, more modern tone.
If you are interested in the Encore, don't overlook its sibling, the Stage One. That one has a pull-release changer. More primitive, but some think pull-release has a superior tone and more sustain compared to all-pull changers. It's a mighty fine guitar, given it's low price. But it doesn't have some bells and whistles, like the adjustable knee levers of an Encore.
Whatever you end up with, you can't lose. |
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Karl Paulsen
From:
Chicago
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Posted 6 Dec 2021 8:44 am
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| Thomas Stone wrote: |
| Regarding the Zum Encore, I think the compromises they have made to keep the price down are almost entirely cosmetic: no polished parts, no fancy woods, no inlays, no glossy lacquer. But in terms of function and tone, it delivers at a very high level. |
This is my understanding as well. My teacher loves the tone, playability and stability of my Encore. The accommodations are definitely in the cosmetics.
Mica surfaces, brushed metal instead of chrome in most places, black textured end plates with visible screws, etc. I don't mind the understated look at all and I think the teak/pecan looking mica on mine is quite striking. Very "Midcentury Modern". There's even a certain relief in not worrying as much about scratching up chrome and knowing you could touch up a ding in the endplates with a paint marker.
However, at some point I do intend to paint the chrome screw heads on the end plates black. That's the only visual bit that picks at me.
_________________
Nickel and Steel. Sad Songs and Steel Guitar.
https://www.facebook.com/NickelandSteel
Chicago Valley Railroad. Trainspotting and Bargain Hunting...
https://chicagovalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/ |
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Zach Turner
From:
Carmel Valley, California, USA
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Posted 6 Dec 2021 11:11 am
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| Tucker Jackson wrote: |
I've played an Encore and a few GFI's owned by students of mine.
My impression: the GFI is a very bright guitar. It gets a classic country sound. Meanwhile, the Encore has a fatter, more modern tone.
If you are interested in the Encore, don't overlook its sibling, the Stage One. That one has a pull-release changer. More primitive, but some think pull-release has a superior tone and more sustain compared to all-pull changers. It's a mighty fine guitar, given it's low price. But it doesn't have some bells and whistles, like the adjustable knee levers of an Encore.
Whatever you end up with, you can't lose. |
I've heard people say that about the GFI. I do like the design and the stainless steel parts they use such as in the changer. On a 6-string, I do prefer the neck pickup and a nice, balanced sound with clear treble. That said, country music is my inspiration for picking up a pedal steel, so one that fits that sound probably would be good for me and I have liked GFI's sound in videos I've watched. I do mostly play rock, jazz, blues on 6-string tho, so something that works for that would be nice too.
As you say, I'm sure that I'll like any of the options that I am considering. |
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Thomas Stone
From:
San Francisco
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Posted 11 Dec 2021 12:18 pm
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| Karl Paulsen wrote: |
| ...However, at some point I do intend to paint the chrome screw heads on the end plates black. That's the only visual bit that picks at me... |
Or you could just get some of these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/255135680307?hash=item3b67458733:g:RhEAAOSwM3BhQPWX
One caution -- On the Encore, Doug grinds about .100" off the pointed ends to keep them from poking through the aprons on the inside. |
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