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Topic: Does my copedent look ok? |
Charley Paul
From:
California, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2021 4:05 pm |
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Hi friends,
I’m purchasing a guitar and am having it set up with a standard Emmons E9 copedent, and I’m adding a VKL and a PF4.
I’m also considering adding an E>F# at string 8 on P3….seems logical. Any reason why this isn’t part of the original Emmons copedent?
Does this look right to everyone? This will be my first guitar with a VKL and P4, so I want to make sure I get it right!
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 23 Nov 2021 4:42 pm
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It looks fine, although I've never used a Franklin pedal. Some folks prefer it at the zero position and I'm sure someone will chime in with why. I never heard of that 8th string raise before, but then everything's been done by someone at some time or another!
Reasons for it not featuring originally? It may have been tough to achieve mechanically back in the day, or B.E. didn't need it. On the other hand, he certainly regarded the 6th string lower to F# as necessary.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs
Last edited by Ian Rae on 23 Nov 2021 4:46 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Tom Jordan
From:
Wichita, KS
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Posted 23 Nov 2021 4:44 pm
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Charlie,
That is the exact set up that I have on my Jackson Pro IV. Lots of good music waiting in there!
Tom
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Dekley S10, Nashville Tele w/Parson B Bender, Dobros, Lap Steels
Fender Tube Amps, Evans FET 500, and stuff... |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 23 Nov 2021 4:50 pm
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| Got the vertical split tuned with the A pedal? A very often used change, for me. |
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Benjamin Davidson
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Posted 23 Nov 2021 5:32 pm
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Pretty standard setup these days.
As to placement of the Franklin pedal, Franklin put the changes on his 4th pedal to make it easier to incorporate on all his guitars at the time. He explains this in his PFM course as he had multiple guitars at the time and couldn't ask his father to change them all over at once. With the changes in P4, it requires more foot movement to engage that pedal. If done today he made the statement he would probably have it in left of "A".
For me, shifting the Franklin to the left most position works better for me, than having the Franklin change on Pedal 4. I've done both and re-rodded the whole thing changing this specific thing (and many other Copedent changes).
As to the string 8 change (E to F#), that normally makes the pull very stiff on "C". In the past, I'm sure it was a mechanical constraint as to why more players didn't utilize it. Franklin's Copedent shows it still on his E9th neck, and I have the change as well.
If the guitar is coming with proper split tuning, the RKR 1/2 stop, and your "A" and "LKV" splits should be easy to get set up.
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Justice Pro-Lite (9p9k) 10 String D13th Universal Tuning |
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Cappone dAngelo
From:
Vancouver, BC, Canada
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Posted 23 Nov 2021 5:51 pm
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Looks good! Very similar to mine (though I have G#->B on LKV, like on PF's older copedent).
Some recommend putting the Franklin pedal to the left of the A pedal - since it's common to use it with the A/B pedals and it may be easier to move immediately to the left than to skip over the C pedal to hit it. I've tried it both places, and each has their advantages, but either works fine.
Especially since you already have the G#->F# change on a knee lever consider splitting the Franklin pedal (like Tommy White - https://b0b.com/wp/copedents/tommy-white-e9th/) - that way, you can lower the Bs and the G# independently OR at the same time. If I recall correctly Paul himself recommends this in his interview with Tommy White. That said, you could always order it as proposed and then if you want the option to lower just the Bs you could just loosen the tuning nuts on the G# lowers so it doesn't do anything - i.e., easier to get it now and disable it later than it is to add hardware later if you decide you don't want it split and instead want both lowers on the same pedal.
As noted above, a tuneable split for LKV + A pedal is handy if you aren't comfortable half-pedalling (makes the subdominant chord minor, or the tonic chord augmented ...), but also consider a tuneable split for RKL + B pedal which in the pedals down position lowers the root to the minor 7 to give a dominant chord.
Also consider a half stop on RKL - either for F#->G raise on the 1st string or for the G#->G lower (to make the minor chord in the pedals up position, which I use a lot). |
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Charley Paul
From:
California, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2021 7:18 pm
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Thanks for the advice!
My thought is that the PF4 pedal seems mostly like a “lick†pedal, not so much a chord voicing pedal that would do anything I can’t already do with a standard Emmons E9. As a result, I dont want to mess with my “pedals down†chording….I’ve only been playing for 3 years, and am just starting to feel ready for some new changes on my guitar! Those A+B pedals are home base for me…
I definitely think tuneable splits will work well for me…..gonna see if I can have them added. |
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Cappone dAngelo
From:
Vancouver, BC, Canada
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Posted 23 Nov 2021 8:37 pm
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| Charley Paul wrote: |
Thanks for the advice!
My thought is that the PF4 pedal seems mostly like a “lick†pedal, not so much a chord voicing pedal that would do anything I can’t already do with a standard Emmons E9. |
Note that PF4 also gives you an alternate voicing for the V7 chord - for example, on strings 5/6/8, instead of B/A/D# (B pedal and LKR) you get A/F#/D# (PF4 and LKR). Not a huge addition, especially given that the F# is otherwise available on string 7, but it's nice to have options! |
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Cappone dAngelo
From:
Vancouver, BC, Canada
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Posted 23 Nov 2021 8:38 pm
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| Charley Paul wrote: |
Thanks for the advice!
My thought is that the PF4 pedal seems mostly like a “lick†pedal, not so much a chord voicing pedal that would do anything I can’t already do with a standard Emmons E9. |
Note that PF4 also gives you an alternate voicing for the V7 chord - for example, on strings 5/6/8, instead of B/A/D# (B pedal and LKR) you get A/F#/D# (PF4 and LKR). Not a huge addition, especially given that the F# is otherwise available on string 7, but it's nice to have options! |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 24 Nov 2021 5:39 am
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Moving string 8 up to F# in parallel with the 4th string on pedal 3 eliminates more chordal and counterpoint options than it gives you in licks in my opinion. If was going to add anything to pedal 3 it would be a 10th string lower to A. Because it is next to pedal 2 you can get a full power chord pretty easily. You have that note already with pedal 4 though.
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Bob
Last edited by Bob Hoffnar on 24 Nov 2021 5:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 24 Nov 2021 5:44 am
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What am I missing? I can't see the '8th string raise' in the poster's chart that you're all discussing (apart from the standard LKL E to F, that is).
(Ooops - I see it now as part of his text.)
That aside, it looks like a more-than-adequate set-up with almost limitless possibilities (although I'd change it around to 'Day'.  )
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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Last edited by Roger Rettig on 24 Nov 2021 1:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2021 9:10 am Re: Does my copedent look ok?
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| Charley Paul wrote: |
I’m also considering adding an E>F# at string 8 on P3….seems logical. Any reason why this isn’t part of the original Emmons copedent? |
I have that change on P3. I may be mistaken, but one of the reasons I heard for having it there is to resolve a tuning issue with open string 7 when playing an F#m chord. Obviously that change can serve a number of other purposes.
Another use for the PF change - yet another F#m7/A6 chord voicing on strings 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-2-1 with RKR engaged. Open string 3 adds a nice 9th to the F#m7, or a M7 to A6. |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Zoots Houston
From:
Kingston, NY
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Posted 27 Nov 2021 12:59 pm
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| I am new to the Franklin pedal, but mine is next to the C pedal like your proposed copedent is. I really like being able to bend the 5th string from A to C# by rocking off one pedal to the other. |
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Zoots Houston
From:
Kingston, NY
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Posted 27 Nov 2021 1:10 pm
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| Zoots Houston wrote: |
| I am new to the Franklin pedal, but mine is next to the C pedal like your proposed copedent is. I really like being able to bend the 5th string from A to C# by rocking off one pedal to the other. |
Just realized putting the Franklin on the other side of the A pedal does the same, but let’s you do that move with the 10th string as well. My guitar has a zero pedal that lowers the G#’s to G and as much as I love that change next to my A pedal…. I’ll have to consider switching things up next time. Just had a big lightbulb go off in my head in front of y’all |
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