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Topic: Sho~Bud Pro II 2nd String Raise |
Kenny Davis
From:
Great State of Oklahoma
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Posted 25 Oct 2021 7:58 pm |
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Decided to move into the 20th century and add the 2nd string half step raise on the same knee that raises the 1st string a whole step. Due to space constraints, I used the bell crank on the 1st string for both. I am using the lowest hole for the 2nd string and the highest for the 1st. (2 hole - Lowest being closest to cross shaft) The pull seems to be a lot stiffer than my other guitars. It's a '73 and was converted to the nylon tuners by Duane Marrs back in 1975. Other guitars with the raise are Super Pro era Pro I, 1974 Pro I with barrels, and a Classic SS. I'm using one bell crank on the newer Pro I and the MSA. They all pull easily.
I'm wondering if anyone else has this pull on this model guitar, and if so how is it working for you? Maybe post a pic so I can see how yours is set up.
My friend Ricky Davis was kind enough to talk to me a few times helping me with this (and other things), but I'd thought I'd see if anyone had the same problem. I don't want to become in debt to him any more than I already am!
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Best lyric in a country song: "...One more, Moon..." |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2021 8:54 pm
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| The 2nd string pull of 1/2 step on the lowest hole in the bellcrank isn't adding much- mostly it's the 1st string that causes the tension- esp. if you have it set to act quickly and a short throw- ie.- the 1st string raise rod in the changer raise position closest to the changer axle and the bell crank position at the top. No way around it- short is stiff- long is easier. It's a bit difficult to totally balance the 2 pulls on string #'s 1 and 2 having them start at exactly the same time due to the disparity of the the 2 pulls. Do you also have a 7th string raise or 6th string drop on this same lever as is common? |
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Kenny Davis
From:
Great State of Oklahoma
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Posted 25 Oct 2021 10:39 pm
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7th string raises 1/2 step on same.
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Best lyric in a country song: "...One more, Moon..." |
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Cody Stewart
From:
Traverse City Michigan, USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2021 4:34 am
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Jim Palenscar, Sounds like the guitar Kenny is referring to has a one up one down changer and I'm assuming has the 2 hole bell cranks. That setup was designed for barrel tuners and some guitars were modified at the factory with extra raise holes on strings 4&5 at the changer so barrels could be eliminated for the use of nylon tuning nuts at the changer. The Brass swivels used at the bell cranks were outfitted with set screws to hold the pull rods in position. This pull train set up was used till around 77 I believe, but of course with different changer designs.
Anyway, The way Kenny is using his bell crank to make his 2nd string raise 1/2 step is probably the only way it can be done with the pull train setup his guitar has. The only other thing I can think to do is play with the raise helper springs and lower return springs to help time the pulls out better to minimize the clunk in the feel. Brining it back to basics, the 1st string raise requires a lot more travel than the 2nd to bring to pitch.
Kenny, if you're only raising string 7 a 1/2 tone, I would recommend setting it up to raise a whole tone just like string 1. It may help smooth the pull out. Having the 3 changes on that one lever will make it stiff. It's just the nature of the beast in a guitar from that era. I'm sure Ricky Davis would agree with all I've said, but at the end of the day he'll be able to help you the most.
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Bolt On’s: Red Belly, Brown Belly, 73 Sho~Bud Pro~II, Fender’s/Peavey’s. If it doesn't sound like 1968, then I probably won’t like it. |
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Kenny Davis
From:
Great State of Oklahoma
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Posted 26 Oct 2021 6:52 am
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Currently my 1st string pull rod runs straight through the changer until it double bends approximately 2" from the brass swivel. The bend raises the rod over the 4th pedal cross shaft to reach the swivel. I've always raised 1 & 7 with L-R and I don't intend to change. However, this puts the bell crank almost touching the 3rd pedal travel stop.
I wonder if I moved the bell crank slightly and installed another to separate the two and used the hole closest to the shaft would make it easier? That would put the pull rods out of straight alignment. Or, do a more gradual bend just out of the changer, riding along the top of the C6th cross shafts and use just one? What about switching pull holes? Too much Physics for an old person's brain!
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Best lyric in a country song: "...One more, Moon..."
Last edited by Kenny Davis on 26 Oct 2021 2:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kenny Davis
From:
Great State of Oklahoma
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Posted 26 Oct 2021 7:50 am
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Jim & Cody - Thanks for the replies! My '74 has room for individual bell cranks (of course, it's a single neck) and it's as smooth as butter and timed well. The 7th is just a half raise as also. I had to play around with pull rod placement at the changer and bell cranks on the newer Pro I, but it's pretty easy now.
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Best lyric in a country song: "...One more, Moon..." |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2021 8:31 am
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Yes like Jim P said and Cody> Short travel is stiffer and longer travel is easier. I ALWAYS choose longer travel when it comes down to decision.
So like I said; if you can put another puller in there to where all those pullers are pulling all three pulls on that cross-shaft; closest to bottom of guitar...would be the easiest....
Timing??ha....well one great timing is that 1st String whole tone pull will have a feel of G note when both D# and lower F# hit to pull....nice half tone feel.
Ricky
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Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Kenny Davis
From:
Great State of Oklahoma
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Posted 26 Oct 2021 2:05 pm
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OK - Got it figured out with everyone's help!
- I added another bell crank and all three are riding in
the hole closest to the cross shaft. 1st & 2nd rods are
more straight than I imagined they would be. The 1st
barely clears #4 pedal stop.
- I raised #7 a whole tone and left some slack on the 2nd
nylon tuner at the changer.
- Was able to back-out the lever stop screw a turn or two
that shortened the travel. It has a much smoother
feel than before.
Thanks for the input guys...And Ricky, you continue to be the guy with the answers! (And, it still plays great since you did your magic a few years ago!)
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Best lyric in a country song: "...One more, Moon..." |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2021 4:37 pm
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Oh that's so perfect brother Kenny, you got it bro; now go to it!! have fun.
Ricky
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Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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