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Post new topic Current edit (maybe final) D13th S12
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Author Topic:  Current edit (maybe final) D13th S12
Johnny Cox


From:
Williamsom WVA Lives in Hallettsville Texas
Post  Posted 12 Sep 2021 12:43 pm    
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Chris Templeton wrote:
Studying the tuning now.
The F#- G# change on the top string, E9, has been somewhat popular in the last 30 years, if not more.
I think Paul Franklin was the first to use it.
I don't see it on your copedent.
Any thoughts on it. String breakage? The C pedal gives a nice unison with the F#, but F#-G# has quality of sound that I like.

It's there, on my guitar it's LKLI. Paul made it prominent but not the first to do it.
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Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967.
Sho-Bud, Jackson and MSA pedal steels. Telonics,Quilter and Sho-Bud amplifiers and volume pedals.
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Chris Templeton


From:
The Green Mountain State
Post  Posted 12 Sep 2021 1:35 pm    
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Thanks guys.
Johnny, could you tell me the weight of the triple neck pedal you had? I'm guessing 120 pounds in the case.
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Johnny Cox


From:
Williamsom WVA Lives in Hallettsville Texas
Post  Posted 12 Sep 2021 5:37 pm    
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Chris Templeton wrote:
Thanks guys.
Johnny, could you tell me the weight of the triple neck pedal you had? I'm guessing 120 pounds in the case.

I honestly don't remember number but it was in split cases. It seems that the guitar in its case was about the same as a D10 in a single case.
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Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967.
Sho-Bud, Jackson and MSA pedal steels. Telonics,Quilter and Sho-Bud amplifiers and volume pedals.
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Chris Templeton


From:
The Green Mountain State
Post  Posted 12 Sep 2021 5:52 pm    
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Got it. Thanks.
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Chris Scruggs

 

From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Post  Posted 13 Sep 2021 7:46 am    
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Johnny, what gauges are you using for D13?
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Dustin Rhodes


From:
Owasso OK
Post  Posted 13 Sep 2021 8:47 am    
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Chris Scruggs wrote:
Johnny, what gauges are you using for D13?


Hey Chris this might help.

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=373060
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Johnny Cox


From:
Williamsom WVA Lives in Hallettsville Texas
Post  Posted 13 Sep 2021 2:50 pm    
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Dustin Rhodes wrote:
Chris Scruggs wrote:
Johnny, what gauges are you using for D13?


Hey Chris this might help.

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=373060

These are the gauges b0b and I came up with
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967.
Sho-Bud, Jackson and MSA pedal steels. Telonics,Quilter and Sho-Bud amplifiers and volume pedals.
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Johnny Cox


From:
Williamsom WVA Lives in Hallettsville Texas
Post  Posted 14 Sep 2021 1:05 pm    
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So doing some thinking about the 1st string raise. As on E9th I raise my 1st (E or 2 to 3 of chord) a whole tone. And on my C6th I lowered my 2nd string (E or 3 to 2 of chord) a whole tone. I got that from Maurice Anderson and use it a lot. On my D13th I'm thinking of lowering the 3rd string a whole tone to accomplish both.
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967.
Sho-Bud, Jackson and MSA pedal steels. Telonics,Quilter and Sho-Bud amplifiers and volume pedals.
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b0b


From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
Post  Posted 14 Sep 2021 9:40 pm    
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Johnny came up with the idea of a chart showing how the intervals line up with the standard E9th and C6th tunings. The RKR changes strings 10 and 11 to match the C6th low A and F intervals. Here's my graphic interpretation of his idea:


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Johnny Cox


From:
Williamsom WVA Lives in Hallettsville Texas
Post  Posted 14 Sep 2021 10:03 pm    
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b0b wrote:
Johnny came up with the idea of a chart showing how the intervals line up with the standard E9th and C6th tunings. The RKR changes strings 10 and 11 to match the C6th low A and F intervals. Here's my graphic interpretation of his idea:

Thanks b0b, it just made sense to look at it in intervals as opposed to tunings. My tuning puts all those intervals in the same spot for both 12 string E9th and C6th. There are lots of players with such better musical minds than me, I still don't understand why this hasn't been done before.
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967.
Sho-Bud, Jackson and MSA pedal steels. Telonics,Quilter and Sho-Bud amplifiers and volume pedals.
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b0b


From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
Post  Posted 14 Sep 2021 10:17 pm    
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Johnny Cox wrote:
So doing some thinking about the 1st string raise. As on E9th I raise my 1st (E or 2 to 3 of chord) a whole tone. And on my C6th I lowered my 2nd string (E or 3 to 2 of chord) a whole tone. I got that from Maurice Anderson and use it a lot. On my D13th I'm thinking of lowering the 3rd string a whole tone to accomplish both.

I'd stick with the 1st string raise. The 3rd string's tuning is very stable because it only raises. There's bound to be a bit of hysteresis if you lower it a full step.

Chris Scruggs wrote:
Johnny, what gauges are you using for D13?

E .014
C# .017
F# .013
D .015
B .018
A .020p
F# .026w
E .030
D .034
C .040
A .046
D .060
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Johnny Cox


From:
Williamsom WVA Lives in Hallettsville Texas
Post  Posted 15 Sep 2021 1:07 pm    
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I thought I would put these variations of D13th setups here for comparison.
First is a standard Emmons 8x5 pedal setup. One additional note, Buddy Emmons did not raise his first string only the second.



Next is what I currently have on my MSA 8X6



The following are the two possibilities for my new guitar, either 7x6 or 6x6







As you can see this tuning is very adaptable to different pedal configurations.
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967.
Sho-Bud, Jackson and MSA pedal steels. Telonics,Quilter and Sho-Bud amplifiers and volume pedals.


Last edited by Johnny Cox on 15 Sep 2021 5:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Darren Mortillaro


From:
Nevada, USA
Post  Posted 15 Sep 2021 4:38 pm    
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Hi Johnny,

I'm having a new MSA S12 put together. Of these options what would you recommend for a beginner?

I should also say that I really don't want to change copedants after deciding on one, as I don't want to be constantly re-learning how to play the instrument. Regularly changing and experimenting with different tunings or setups will only confuse me further, and slow down my progress. Which would you say is the best setup for a beginner to learn and to stick with permanently?


Last edited by Darren Mortillaro on 15 Sep 2021 5:13 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Johnny Cox


From:
Williamsom WVA Lives in Hallettsville Texas
Post  Posted 15 Sep 2021 4:54 pm    
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Darren Mortillaro wrote:
Hi Johnny,

I'm having a new MSA S12 put together. Of these options what would you recommend for a beginner?

Johnny Cox wrote:
I thought I would put these variations of D13th setups here for comparison.
First is a standard Emmons 8x5 pedal setup



Next is what I currently have on my MSA 8X6



The following are the two possibilities for my new guitar, either 7x6 or 6x6







As you can see this tuning is very adaptable to different pedal configurations.

Have you played very long and what setup do you currently have?
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967.
Sho-Bud, Jackson and MSA pedal steels. Telonics,Quilter and Sho-Bud amplifiers and volume pedals.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

Darren Mortillaro


From:
Nevada, USA
Post  Posted 15 Sep 2021 4:58 pm    
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Hi Johnny,

I have a S-10 E9, 3 pedal 3 lever BMI. Been playing (or messing around with PSG) for about 10-15 years, but am still a beginner.

As mentioned above, I really don't want to change copedants after deciding on a new "universal" one, as I don't want to be constantly re-learning how to play the instrument. Regularly changing and experimenting with different tunings or setups will only confuse me further, and slow down my progress. Which would you say is the best setup for a beginner to learn and to stick with permanently?

I have a solid background in music theory, and am more a jazz guitar guy than anything. Pedal steel is something I am not as familiar with.
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Johnny Cox


From:
Williamsom WVA Lives in Hallettsville Texas
Post  Posted 15 Sep 2021 5:42 pm    
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Darren Mortillaro wrote:
Hi Johnny,

I have a S-10 E9, 3 pedal 3 lever BMI. Been playing (or messing around with PSG) for about 10-15 years, but am still a beginner.

As mentioned above, I really don't want to change copedants after deciding on a new "universal" one, as I don't want to be constantly re-learning how to play the instrument. Regularly changing and experimenting with different tunings or setups will only confuse me further, and slow down my progress. Which would you say is the best setup for a beginner to learn and to stick with permanently?

I have a solid background in music theory, and am more a jazz guitar guy than anything. Pedal steel is something I am not as familiar with.

Then I suggest the standard Emmons setup.
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967.
Sho-Bud, Jackson and MSA pedal steels. Telonics,Quilter and Sho-Bud amplifiers and volume pedals.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

b0b


From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
Post  Posted 15 Sep 2021 6:13 pm    
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Johnny, I think there are two errors on your "Emmons" chart, both on the right knee, 2nd string. Shouldn't they be half-step, not full-step changes (D and C, respectively)?


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Mike Spaeth

 

From:
Springdale
Post  Posted 15 Sep 2021 6:28 pm     D13
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I am curious about the open B on the 5th string while pulling string 6 to a B again.
How is this used in an actual playing environment?
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Darren Mortillaro


From:
Nevada, USA
Post  Posted 15 Sep 2021 6:35 pm    
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Hi Johnny,

Many thanks. I'll think of the Emmons 8x5 D13 as the most standard or generic version then.

However, you feel the "Day" CBA setup to be more ergonomic? If I'm starting over from scratch anyway, do you still feel the Emmon's version is best?

Love your playing. Any plans to make more videos or lessons on this setup?


Johnny Cox wrote:
Darren Mortillaro wrote:
Hi Johnny,

I have a S-10 E9, 3 pedal 3 lever BMI. Been playing (or messing around with PSG) for about 10-15 years, but am still a beginner.

As mentioned above, I really don't want to change copedants after deciding on a new "universal" one, as I don't want to be constantly re-learning how to play the instrument. Regularly changing and experimenting with different tunings or setups will only confuse me further, and slow down my progress. Which would you say is the best setup for a beginner to learn and to stick with permanently?

I have a solid background in music theory, and am more a jazz guitar guy than anything. Pedal steel is something I am not as familiar with.

Then I suggest the standard Emmons setup.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail


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