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Topic: would appreciate insights re vintage National Steel guitar |
Billy Spiry
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2021 3:31 pm |
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Howdy. I’m new to the forum and new to lap steel guitar. I’m also blind and hoping this posting works alright. Recently, I came to have a vintage National electric steel guitar, based on SN it appears to be mfr’d in 1964. My understanding is that National stopped making electric lap steel’s around 1968 or so. I’ve included a link to some photos of the instrument. Due to my blindness, I haven’t been able to figure out the specific model of the instrument from the web other than the apparent 1964 manufacture. The instrument is in excellent condition and I have the original hard case and steel legs as well. I’m hoping ya’ll may be able to offer some insights regarding my instrument and maybe some more details on how best to maintain it. One thing in particular, I’d appreciate recommendations on string gauge to use on the instrument to get best performance. it appears the strings on board are pretty light gauge, perhaps #10s or so, with the third string unwound, like slinkies for an electric guitar. the guitar sounds amazing, it’s got a hell of a bark and the low end shakes the walls through my Blues Jr using a long dog brass slide finger picking with a thumb pick and finger tips. I’m blown away by the character of the pickup on this thing! I’m new to this and could use some guidance and any ideas on the model etc.
Here’s the dropbox link to the photos: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cpeoian4676nba2/AACz_o98NYTNt33beXbfvUUZa?dl=0
The instrument has some special meaning for me. Apparently my grandma, now passed some 8 years, found this at an estate sale over 20 years ago and intended that it be given to me. It got lost in a room of boxes from her estate shopping and only recently came into my hands when we were cleaning the room up. My aunt who lived with gram at the end of her life told me she’d gotten it for me a long time ago.
also never used finger picks. Been told to get some steel picks but hesitant that they will damage the condition of the instrument. Advice on that welcome as well.
I’d appreciate any wisdom. Thanks much!
Billy BillyBlue@Duskybluesmusic.com |
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Asa Brosius
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Posted 20 Aug 2021 4:49 pm
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Hi Billy-
Happy to hear the instrument finally found you. A few points-
The model is a National Dynamic- I have one from a similar era, and I love it as well-yours looks great. Your string gauges will depend on the tuning you like-I have mine in an open D (151315 intervals). I can't speak to specific tuning sets and gauges sold, but I'm sure others here can. Re: picks, just follow your ears- the decision to use them is truly is to taste- metal picks can leave some scratches on the fret board depending on your picking technique, but that's really only an issue for collectors, not players. Re: maintenance, they're simple and pretty steels- if a specific problem arises- weak pickup, scratchy pots, loose tuners, wiring, you'll know and you can ask specific questions here.
Best of luck,
Asa |
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Ian McLatchie
From:
Sechelt, British Columbia
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Posted 21 Aug 2021 8:49 am
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| Great back story, Billy. Your grandmother had excellent taste! Dynamics are one of the most popular Valco (i.e. National - Supro) models, especially with blues players. As proof of how well suited they are to that style — and that finger picks are optional — Freddie Roulette plays a model that is first cousin to the Dynamic. If you opt for picks, I wouldn't worry about damaging the top. The plastic coating is rugged and you're more likely to ding it with the bar than to damage it with your picks. Most pick marks buff out easily with Meguiar's Swirl Remover or a similar light abrasive. |
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Billy Spiry
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2021 10:27 am
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| Thank you fellas. Great information and very useful. Wondered if it might be a dynamic, thank you for confirming that! And as it is, I happen to be a blues musician and so far I am loving this instrument. I am pretty new at open tuning and slide, but I seem to be getting a knack for it. So far I’ve been playing is beauty in open G. Regarding the different tunings and string sets, that’s really a new area for me and I don’t know much about it other than strings for standard tuning‘s. On my round neck resonator I use 13 gauge to 56 elixirs. So any additional information/education you can offer regarding string choices for lab steals in particular would absolutely be very much appreciated. I am wondering, thought I read some things that made it sound like certain instruments are built to accommodate certain gauges when it comes to lab steals, want to make sure I’m not gonna choose anything that can damage the instrument. Seems like a pretty solid piece of work and seems like it would be pretty tolerant of even high tensions, but I want to make sure. |
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Billy Spiry
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2021 10:30 am
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| I do have another question, I guess you’d say a practical question. Well I have no interest in selling this instrument, it’s way too cool for that, I would like to have an idea of what it’s worth for purposes of insurance etc. Any insights on that might be appreciated as well. Thanks again. |
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Billy Spiry
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2021 11:06 am
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| Hey, and thanks for the recommendation in Freddie Roulette! I Had heard some of his music before but that was before I started playing slide guitar and steel. Wow, Brand new perspective and appreciation! That’s very cool. Thanks again. |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 21 Aug 2021 10:59 pm
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Regarding the value, National Dynamics are not that rare, but they remain desirable. Sold locally without the legs and case it might fetch only four to five hundred dollars. However, one in very good condition like yours, with the legs and case would probably fetch twelve hundred or more on Reverb.
Don’t be surprised if you get some wildly different opinions here. You might get old-timers telling you they’ve never paid more than three hundred dollars, and you might get some people saying they saw one for sale on eBay or reverb for twenty five hundred, a price that is not realistic.
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – D G D G B D
7 String | G9 – D G B D F A D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Billy Spiry
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2021 11:22 pm
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| Thanks much. |
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Ian McLatchie
From:
Sechelt, British Columbia
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Posted 22 Aug 2021 8:30 am
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First, assuming your tuners aren't badly worn, there's little chance you'll damage the instrument with any strings you're likely to choose. The choice of string gauges is subjective, but in general you'll want thicker strings than you'd put on a guitar in a similar tuning. Go to the Stings section on the Forum home page and you'll find many options. Any good brand of nickel wounds will do to start and with experimentation you'll find what suits you. I don't play in open G, but I'd likely choose these gauges:
D - .016 p
B - .018 p
G - .024 w
D - .034 w
B - .038 w
G - .050 w |
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Brian Evans
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 23 Aug 2021 7:10 am
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It's identical to my 1963-ish National Dynamic, lovely instrument. There is quite an easy modification that can be done to the tone control that removes the bass-cut capacitor and really opens up the sound a lot. It amounts to removing a resistor, a capacitor, and moving one wire. What's left is a "normal" electric guitar tone circuit that just cuts highs for a more mellow tone, with the pot open you hear the full output of the pickup. https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=371510
In terms of value, in 2005 (around when I got mine) $350 - $450 seemed to be OK, what I paid and what someone on that thread paid. No clue what they are worth now. Yours looks quite pristine. Mine is a little bit more road-worn. The red is a translucent lacquer (mine is flamed maple body) and the white seems to be a dipped plastic coating. |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 3 Sep 2021 9:30 pm
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Billy, from your original post, it sounds like you already play guitar. You might find the easiest tuning for you to get started on is open E. E B E G sharp B E. When you are comfortable with that tuning you can tune one of the B strings up to C sharp. Then you have an E6 tuning and C sharp minor seven tuning.
If you plan to take lessons you will probably find that your teacher will recommend C six tuning. C6 is the most common modern lap steel tuning. It is very different than guitar tuning and requires lighter strings on the bass side, but it is a very versatile tuning.
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – D G D G B D
7 String | G9 – D G B D F A D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Billy Spiry
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2021 1:16 pm thanks for the suggestions on tuning
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much appreciated. yes, been playing guitar for awhile including some b bottleneck resonator and enjoy the open E tuning. I'm looking forward to trying some of the more specialized tunings for steel.
If you plan to take lessons you will probably find that your teacher will recommend C six tuning. C6 is the most common modern lap steel tuning. It is very different than guitar tuning and requires lighter strings on the bass side, but it is a very versatile tuning.[/quote] |
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Billy Spiry
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2021 1:45 pm thanks for the tone mod suggestion
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Hey brian, thanks for your response and the info for modification of the tone control. I'm a blues and rock blues musician so this mod sounds like it would serve me well. going to talk with my tech buddy about it.
thanks much!
| Brian Evans wrote: |
It's identical to my 1963-ish National Dynamic, lovely instrument. There is quite an easy modification that can be done to the tone control that removes the bass-cut capacitor and really opens up the sound a lot. It amounts to removing a resistor, a capacitor, and moving one wire. What's left is a "normal" electric guitar tone circuit that just cuts highs for a more mellow tone, with the pot open you hear the full output of the pickup. https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=371510
In terms of value, in 2005 (around when I got mine) $350 - $450 seemed to be OK, what I paid and what someone on that thread paid. No clue what they are worth now. Yours looks quite pristine. Mine is a little bit more road-worn. The red is a translucent lacquer (mine is flamed maple body) and the white seems to be a dipped plastic coating. |
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