Smallest / lightest S-12

Johnny Cox · Posted 14 Jul 2021 2:28 pm

So now that I'm in my big truck 85% of the time I'm thinking of getting a small lightweight S-12 to practice in the truck. I'm thinking probably a keyless. What brands are you S-12 guys like?
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Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967.

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

Excel keyless:

http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Excel%2012%20String%20Keyless/Excel%2012%20String%20Keyless.html

Can get in various configurations.

The main body measures 27.5" by 8.25"
The scale is 24 1/4"
Guitar weight is 25.8 pounds
Case weight is 12.1 pounds!
The guitar and the case combined total weight is a minimal 37.9 pounds

Johnie King · From: Tennessee, USA

Not smallest or lightest.
But Williams make a very good keyless with 4 over 3 changer.

Johnie King · From: Tennessee, USA

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

I have the Williams S-12 also:

http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Williams%2012%20String%20Keyless/Williams%2012%20String%20Keyless.html

It's not quite as light or as compact as the Excel. It weighs 26.9 pounds and the case weighs 31.1 pounds. So the case is a LOT heavier and the guitar is a pound or so heavier. But the capability of the Excel is superior if that capability is needed or wanted by you. The guitar end plates are 8.25" wide, the distance from the floor to the lowest point on the back apron is 25.5" and the overall guitar length is 29". The weight of the Williams would go up a bit if you added all the pedals and knees that the Excel has.

Side by side in the case:

Side by side out of the case:

Excel changer diagram with 7 raise, 4 lower capability, one raise and one lower taken up by the lock ever if used:

Picture of Excel changer:

Steve Mueller · From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

Greg's got the heavy duty road case for his Williams. The regular case is about 13 lbs making the total guitar plus case 40 lbs. And a beautiful laquer steel!
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2016 Williams D12 8 x 8, 2015 Williams D12 8 x 8, 2023 Williams S12 4 x 5, Milkman Amps, 1974 Gibson Byrdland

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

I have a pair of instruments almost identical to Greg's. As Steve says, the guitars weigh much the same - it's just the cases that differ.

These do seem to be the two lightest keyless around.
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Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Bob Watson · From: Champaign, Illinois, U.S.

Johnny, I'm curious, if you get one of these, would you put the D13 tuning on it or go for a Universal B6/E9 tuning?

Johnny Cox · Posted 16 Jul 2021 4:21 pm

Bob Watson · From: Champaign, Illinois, U.S.

I had a feeling that the D13 would be the way you'd go. I hope you find one that you like.

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

You can put ANY tuning on both of these, but the EXCEL really is a mechanical piece of Swiss Watchmaking. Additionally, it has a changer which allows for more pulls than Vance Terry ever had with stacked pedal Very Happy

I just re-setup my Excel Superb and setup a C6th with 5 pedals and 7 lever (3 verticals of which one is over the right knee.

A 25inch scale length allows for any base tuning. We often forget that on a PSG, the "tuning key" (C, B, Bb, A, E...) is not defined only by the open-non-pedaled tuning.
A PSG generates pretty much every chord in the book without a bar. Additionally, C6th is A7, FM7, Dm9 just "open".

... J-D.
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A Little Mental Health Warning:

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The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.

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Adam Tracksler · From: Maine, USA

The Moyo guitars are extremely compact and light for an S12. I have one in extE9 that is a super guitar.

Paul Redmond · From: Illinois, USA

Williams now uses an ultra-violet cured polyester instead of lacquer. The stuff is about bulletproof.
PRR

Peter Roush · From: Ohio, USA

John McClung · From: Olympia WA, USA

Following...
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Johnie King · From: Tennessee, USA

Lone star by Jim Flynn he might have some ideas on a small light Keyless.

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

Another vote for keyless 25.5" scale Excel U12 w/8+9 fits in what looks like a tenor sax case. The mechanics and engineering are second to none.

K Maul · From: Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL

EXCEL is a superior design and VERY light. My S-11 (4+5) is only 37lbs in the case!
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Kevin Maul: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Decophonic, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing.

Johnny Cox · Posted 23 Aug 2021 10:34 am

Thanks for all the info everyone. I have a new guitar being built. I'll tell you what brand and put up photos at a later date.
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Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967.

Johnie King · From: Tennessee, USA

A longer scale for d 13 for more sustain an more comfortable keyless steel too play yes or no?

Jeremy Threlfall · From: now in Western Australia

For a time, I had an '84 Sho-bud (Pro-1) 10, a '78 Anapeg 10 and a 700 series Williams

All on single bodies

The Sho-bud was the dimensionally smallest and lightest of the three
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