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Topic: Uhh, is Emmons back? |
Herb Steiner
From: Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 21 Jul 2021 7:33 am
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The original wood neck Emmonses, numbers 1164007 and 1164008 (and maybe others, but those are the only two I've personally owned), had tailpieces without the milled lip, and shorter pillow blocks bolted directly to the neck on the same plane as the fretboards.
The milled lip didn't come until 1965 at the earliest. _________________ My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Paul Redmond
From: Illinois, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2021 12:50 pm
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The late Charlie Ward had acquired the rights to the push/pull design. When he died some years ago, he still owned those rights.
PRR |
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Erv Niehaus
From: Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2021 12:53 pm
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Who owns the name: "Emmons"?
I know that the Jackson's sold the name: "Sho-Bud".
Erv |
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J D Sauser
From: Wellington, Florida
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Posted 12 Aug 2021 5:44 am
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Erv Niehaus wrote: |
Who owns the name: "Emmons"?
I know that the Jackson's sold the name: "Sho-Bud".
Erv |
The new Emmons Company does. Trade Mark Logo and Name.
... J-D. _________________ __________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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b0b
From: Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 12 Aug 2021 7:11 am
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Paul Redmond wrote: |
The late Charlie Ward had acquired the rights to the push/pull design. When he died some years ago, he still owned those rights.
PRR |
The patent has expired, so I'm not sure what "right to the push/pull design" means exactly. _________________ -๐๐๐- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Patrick Huey
From: Nacogdoches, Texas, USA
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Posted 12 Aug 2021 7:29 am
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b0b wrote: |
Paul Redmond wrote: |
The late Charlie Ward had acquired the rights to the push/pull design. When he died some years ago, he still owned those rights.
PRR |
The patent has expired, so I'm not sure what "right to the push/pull design" means exactly. |
b0b
Correct. It is my understanding the patent expired and the new proprietors purchased it I believe. _________________ Pre RP Mullen D10 8/7, Zum 3/4, Carter S-10 3/4, previous Cougar SD-10 3/4 & GFI S-10 3/4, Fender Steel King, 2 Peavey Session 500's, Peavey Nashville 400, Boss DD-3, Profex-II, Hilton Digital Sustain, '88 Les Paul Custom,Epiphone MBIBG J-45, Fender Strat & Tele's, Takamine acoustics, Marshall amps, Boss effects, Ibanez Tube Screamer, and it all started with an old cranky worn out Kay acoustic you could slide a Mack truck between the strings and fretboard on!! |
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Erv Niehaus
From: Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 12 Aug 2021 7:45 am
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There is no need to purchase something that has expired.
Erv |
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J D Sauser
From: Wellington, Florida
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Posted 12 Aug 2021 11:17 am
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Remember 20-some years ago, when Rick Aielo (spelling?) came out with "Rickenbacher"-style horse-shoe magnet re-issue pickups and got an unfriendly "cease and desist" invite from Rickenbacker's lawyers arguing that while the patent was long expired, there was Trademark infringement because their pickups' LOOKS had become their trademark look (they continued making "horseshoe"-pickups where the horseshoe wasn't the magnet anymore?
I doubt anybody would make the case with the Emmons... the Emmons LOOK has been copied by many steel manufactures for decades already.
But Erv, asked about the "Name" and that, as I understand was รขโยข & รยฎ and acquired by the new Emmons Co.
... J-D. _________________ __________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Erv Niehaus
From: Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 12 Aug 2021 12:22 pm
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Yes,
A trademark or a copyright can be renewed over and over again but when the time runs out on a patent, it's over.
Erv |
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J D Sauser
From: Wellington, Florida
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Posted 12 Aug 2021 12:51 pm
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Erv Niehaus wrote: |
Yes,
A trademark or a copyright can be renewed over and over again but when the time runs out on a patent, it's over.
Erv |
Yes, and thus what can be renewed can be sold/acquired and what expired can't and becomes public domain.
I think it's over 20 years ago that one forumite out of Europe produced and sold Emmons-resembling push-pull guitars under a different name (ProMat, was it?).
Even just before our forumite Bobby Bowman (NOT "B-Bowman Hop") build and sold a small number of push pull guitars based on the Emmons principles too.
I don't remember that they faced any legal challenges. And now we're 20 years later.
... J-D. _________________ __________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Jerry Jones
From: Franklin, Tenn.
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Posted 12 Aug 2021 2:24 pm
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Here's a screen shot of the original patent. I believe at that time the patent term was 17 years from issue date, so been in the public domain for many years.
CLICK HERE
_________________ Jerry Jones
Last edited by Jerry Jones on 23 Aug 2021 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Donny Hinson
From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 12 Aug 2021 6:40 pm What I remember about whatever it was
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In the case of the "Horseshoe Pickups" that Rick made, I believe that the main issue was that he could make them, but he could not call them "Horseshoe Pickups", as that's covered by a "trademark copyright". Trademark copyrights last as long as the original item is still in continuous production, and that can be a very long time. (Even longer than music and written material copyrights, which have a minimum of 70-90 years now.)
Also, there are different types of patents; a "utility patent", and a "design patent". A utility patent covers and describes how an item is made and how it functions, and that patent has a life of 20 years. A design patent covers and describes how an item looks. The caveat here is that the design's uniqueness must be "visible and obvious during during the item's general use." Since what makes a push/pull changer different is largely hidden in the cabinet of the guitar, a design patent could not be issued. (That's probably a moot point, anyway, because the term for a design patent is shorter...only 15 years.) |
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