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Topic: Too Many Over Thinkers |
Michael Lester
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 9 Jul 2021 2:39 pm |
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I'm with George Redmon on this topic.
I taught fiddle night classes at a local Junior College for several years.
Students who arrived with poorly made, inexpensive violins noticed very quickly the differences in tone between themselves and their neighbor in the next seat over. 7 out of 10 played and sounded better when they got to play a more well crafted violin.
It became such a hot button, that I added a whole session on buying a better violin and had a violin maker / luthier come to class to help identify fine points.
I watch a lot of steel guitar YouTube. With very rare exception, the top players on stage at the various steel shows don't go direct to his or her amp - nor are they playing their first pedal steel. They migrated - like my fiddle students.
The Pros on stage all have some sort or rack or effects box right next to them. I believe they got those effects from years of experimenting to get their 'signature' tone.
Probably a lot of money, adjusting and tweaking, and time - but they're on stage with their own sound.
Experimenting is worth the journey. |
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Mark McCornack
From:
California, USA
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Posted 9 Jul 2021 4:11 pm Re: Too Many Over Thinkers
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| Philip Mitrakos wrote: |
Don't worry about trying to figure out a better way,
Just play the dang thing ,
You don't need the best finger picks , the best strings, the best pickup , the best amp , the best guitar , the best volume pedal ,the best cables, the best speakers, just sit down and enjoy playing what you got , |
For my own playing, if I don't try and figure out a better way, I'm forever stagnant in a mode which, as defined here, is not a "better way". I'm not saying mortgage the house to buy the "best" gear, but seeking improvement through change and experimentation is what it's all about. Keep what works and discard what doesn't. If this is Overthinking it, then so be it. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 9 Jul 2021 7:42 pm Re: The gear journey
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| Michael Lester wrote: |
I taught fiddle night classes at a local Junior College for several years.
Students who arrived with poorly made, inexpensive violins noticed very quickly the differences in tone between themselves and their neighbor in the next seat over. 7 out of 10 played and sounded better when they got to play a more well crafted violin.
It became such a hot button, that I added a whole session on buying a better violin and had a violin maker / luthier come to class to help identify fine points.
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Apples and oranges, Michael. You really can't compare acoustic instruments with solid-bodied electric ones. There's a craftsmanship and centuries-old tradition behind making acoustic instruments that you just don't find in a slab of wood with hardware attached, and that's reflected in their (respectively) low prices. You can buy a violin for $50, or $50,000, or even up into the millions. But with a pedal steel or slab electric guitar, the range is far more reduced, and you'll find true exceptionality only in the player. That's because our instrument is closer to a tool than a crafted piece of artwork.
In all my decades of playing, I can think of few instances where the instrument made a difference in how well someone played or sounded. Curiously enough, this guy agreed with me:
| Buddy Emmons wrote: |
| Over the years I've had hundreds of players sit down at The Blade and play through my amp with my tone settings and they ended up sounding like they did on their own guitars. |
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Steven Pearce
From:
Port Orchard Washington, USA
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Posted 11 Jul 2021 12:08 pm
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Ohhh, now I get it…don’t worry about the best bar to have when you’ve only had a steel guitar for 3 hours. Spend a year or a few figuring out how to use that barâ—ï¸
On the other side of this, I spent the last few years in a duo with a guy that was a real live Rock Star! No kidding, early 80’s MTV records out, huge concerts…been around.
WELL one night he’s looking around the floor kinda nervous, I asked what’s wrong..
“ I lost my pick†he said. I told him just grab another one! He looked at me and said
BUT I ONLY HAVE ONE PICK! true
So I guess trying to better yourself with new gear isn’t bad, like trying different picks.
Steve
_________________
http://www.fentonstwang.com/fr_home.cfm |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 17 Jul 2021 8:52 am
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A little more gear and this guy can take up playing steel guitar. I'm guilty too. I've tried a lot of stuff over the years.
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 19 Jul 2021 1:03 pm
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Playing what you have may be a relative waste of time if you buy cheap poor quality gear and/or equipment that does not work week in the specific venues you play - underpowered overpowered or voiced wrong.
Also keep your gear in good repair - tube amps need to be serviced periodically and fixed bias amps adjusted properly by a qualified tech.
Different string alloys have different sound. You need to at least understand what those voicings are; how they work with YOUR guitar(s)e and amp(s) and what is most appropriate for the style of music you play.
Not every piece of gear "just works" for every situation in every style. The OP's advice may be OK for the home player - but it's WAY off base for anyone who plays gigs or does studio work.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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David Wren
From:
Placerville, California, USA
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Posted 28 Jul 2021 6:34 pm
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So, it's been a while since I weighed in on a forum topic, just real busy.
But this one caught my attention, as I find myself on both sides of the question.
I've been playing steel for 54 years, which means I started out as a teenager... full of beans. When I got my 1970 MSA, which allowed the user to more easily change the copedant, man oh man, I thought I was the bee knees.
After a couple of years, working 6 nights a week in Billings MT, on my night off I went to another club, and heard a local legend, a guy name Harley Brindle playing on a very old Fender cable steel guitar... but oh man, what he was playing!!!
So I adopted a saying, that I've kept ever since; "It's not what you play on, it's what you play on it!"
Keith Hilton mentioned earlier in this topic... yeah, the tone you want is in your hands... so true.
Now, with that sage advice, do note that tonight I also posted a topic about my new Line 6 HX Stomp effects unit.... funny huh?
Bottom line, new players, get a good bar, with some weight, get a good steel, where the undercarriage comes back to the proper pitch each time  .... get a good amp, with more bottom than you need so you can dial in "your" sound... and remember, the volume pedal will take half of your headroom, so don't spare the watts.
The rest can wait until you have some stage time under your belt.... and an understanding wife or husband
_________________
Dave Wren
'96 Carter U12,7X7; 1936 7 string National; Line 6 HX Stomp; Quilter TT-15/TB202; Quilter "Steelaire"; DV Mark "GH 250"with 15" 1501 BW; Boss "Katana" 100 Head w/Line 6 Cab; Telonics VP.
Last edited by David Wren on 29 Jul 2021 8:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Karl Paulsen
From:
Chicago
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Posted 29 Jul 2021 3:46 am
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This topic reminds me of the many topics on an electric bass forum I frequent essentially asking
"is tone all in the hands?"
The answer -taken in aggregate- invariably comes out something like
"Yes, but...."
Most everyone agrees that primary effort should be applied toward musicianship but that the majority of folks are simultaneously involved in some sort of mechanical/gear pursuit of better tone. Most everyone also agrees that most (though not all) pros have something besides instrument and amp in their chain.
We're dealing with a signal path from hand (and feet) to speaker. I don't see any fundamental difference between amp control adjustment and changing effects pedals.
I've only been at this a few years. Most of my practice time is just me and my steel, volume pedal and my good amp. However, I'm still having a blast trying different effects, different practice space amps, etc.
_________________
Nickel and Steel. Sad Songs and Steel Guitar.
https://www.facebook.com/NickelandSteel
Chicago Valley Railroad. Trainspotting and Bargain Hunting...
https://chicagovalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/ |
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Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2021 9:57 pm
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It seems to me that there are two very different discussions going on here.
1) “Why are some people always seeking better quality gear, such as a better steel guitar, amps, or seat, etc. instead of just practicing more?â€
2) “Why do some people buy lots of different effects, instead of just having a steel guitar, an amp, and a volume pedal like me?â€
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For discussion #1 about gear, I agree with what seems to be the prevailing sentiment on this thread; it does seem that some people believe that they need better gear to sound better.
OTOH, over the years, I’ve noticed many players have posted their regrets about selling a favorite older steel to buy a newer, shinier one—and wishing they had their old one back.
My own belief is, I’ve had the same Emmons steel (and amp) for decades. It has great tone, and when I become a much, much better player and sound just like any of the Buddys (maybe in another hundred years or so)--then perhaps I’ll trade it in on a newer one.
However OTOOH, sometimes new products come out that do offer significant advantages over the older ones, and if some people want to be the first to try them out—great! I’ll wait for their reviews. For example, I started using George L cables after seeing some glowing reviews on the SGF--and they are better than my older, high-quality cables.
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For discussion #2 about effects, I believe it depends on what type of music you are playing; "one size does not fit all".
When I’ve played in traditional country bands, the only effect I recall using was a fuzz-tone for an occasional request for a wild rock & roll song.
Now I’m playing with a band that does mostly original “country-flavoredâ€, “singer-songwriterâ€, or “Americana†material. And their favorite requests of me are to “Play something dreamyâ€, or to “Play something like the guest organ-player did†on a couple of the original songs, etc.
So I’ve acquired two or three more effects pedals, so I can create a “dreamy†sound or whatever the band wants to hear to give certain songs a unique flavor.
And isn’t that what Buddy Emmons was trying to do back when he was working sessions—trying out lots of effects so that he could give certain songs a unique flavor and help make the song a hit?
For example, “Green River • The Everly Brothers†(with Buddy Emmons on steel)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tCVDTjq0ao
(It's "dreamy", too!)
- Dave |
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Tim Carr
From:
Connecticut; East Haddam, Connecticut River Valley
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Posted 8 Aug 2021 12:32 pm
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A couple of thought provoking quotes come to mind.
“The best sounding steel you’ll ever own is the one you just sold†– Billy Knowles
“If what you play sounds good, it doesn’t matter what you play. If what you play doesn’t sound good, it doesn’t matter what you play†– Buddy Charlton
_________________
Emmons LL D-10 8x8
Emmons VP, MatchBox 7A
NV-112 w/Fox mod, PF-350 |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 9 Aug 2021 5:01 pm
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People will listen to a great player all day, no matter what he's using. But a poor player, no matter how great his gear, will never sound good.
You can't buy the sound, you have to make it!
As evidence, just listen to the thousands of players who bought Emmons guitars; 99.99% of whom still couldn't sound like Buddy Emmons...even on the slowest and simplest of songs.
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