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Topic: Jazz chords in E9 |
David Whyte
From:
Ireland
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Posted 19 Jun 2021 2:14 pm |
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Hi folks, I'm a newbie to pedal steel and playing on a S10 GFI ultra 4 pedals 5 knee levers. Is there a good source for jazz chord voicings in E9 available anywhere, particularly ii V I, iii vi ii V, etc with altered extensions etc. Thanks in advance and apologies if this has been asked before!
Dave |
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Posted 19 Jun 2021 4:38 pm Re: Jazz chords in E9
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| David Whyte wrote: |
Hi folks, I'm a newbie to pedal steel and playing on a S10 GFI ultra 4 pedals 5 knee levers. Is there a good source for jazz chord voicings in E9 available anywhere, particularly ii V I, iii vi ii V, etc with altered extensions etc. Thanks in advance and apologies if this has been asked before!
Dave |
David, I'm not a theorist so don't really know names or numbers but here's something that I did that may be helpful... The numbers you see will be the strings used... if you see an L by it it means Lower that string, and if you see an R by it then Raise that string... A= A Pedal and B= B pedal. The format may be somewhat different between this, as I'm still trying to figure out what works and what doesn't... and some of these changes you may not have... Some I play through first and then slow it down with the Tab/Instruction?... good luck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUFr1iYoFAM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9Gbzm8CAW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPpZ_MUV818&t=12s
_________________
Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune™
*2021 MSA Legend, "Jolly Rancher" D10 10x9
*2021 Rittenberry, "The Concord" D10 9x9
*1977 Blue Sho-Bud Pro 3 Custom 8x6
https://msapedalsteels.com
http://rittenberrysteelguitars.com
https://www.telonics.com/index.php
https://www.p2pamps.com
https://www.quilterlabs.com |
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Guy Cundell
From:
More idle ramblings from South Australia
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Posted 19 Jun 2021 8:04 pm
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I've benefited from Dale's videos. Thanks, Dale.
Here is a bunch of relatively simple I VI7 II7 V7 progressions up and down the neck on the lower strings as a starting point. V is the vertical lever lowering B to Bb.
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 20 Jun 2021 1:30 pm
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If you leave out the root and 5th and base your chords on the 3rds and 7ths you will have an easier time finding what you are looking for. It will open up the tuning much better than the standard approach.
Example: Fret 6
strings 9 ,6 and 5 with the A pedal in is an E7 sharp 9. With A pedal out its an E7 flat 9.
The E9 neck in its standard configuration is also great for quartal harmonies.
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Bob |
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David Whyte
From:
Ireland
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Posted 20 Jun 2021 2:13 pm
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| Thanks everybody for taking the time reply! |
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Sam Conomo
From:
Queensland, Australia
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Posted 20 Jun 2021 4:51 pm E7#9
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Just a thought on bobs
Suggestion ,
When thinking E7#9.
String 9,6,5A pedal
You will find it helpful
To think flat 5 substitution .
E7#9=Bb13
Here is the thinking.
Flat 5.
This only if you don't know.
Just in case.
Notes of E7#9.
1=E,3=G#,5=B,b7=D,#9=G
Flat 5 of E = Bb.
Notes of a Bb13
1=Bb,3=D,5=F,b7=Ab,9=C,13=G
The 3rd of E(G#)=b7 of Bb(Ab)
Same notes ,called differently
In different keys.
The b7 of E (D)=3rd of Bb(D)
The #9 of E (G)=13th of Bb(G)
I hope this is not too much,
I,ve always thought like this
It allows you to double and triple
Your usage of any given chord.
Sam. |
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Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
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Posted 20 Jun 2021 5:24 pm
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| Quote: |
Example: Fret 6
strings 9 ,6 and 5 with the A pedal in is an E7 sharp 9. With A pedal out its an E7 flat 9. |
Yes- this grip is like a Swiss army knife for chord substitutions on E9!
Great for b9, #9 and dom13 voicings.
Try this over a G7 chord using just strings 9/6/5:
3rd pos. G13 (w/ A Pedal) then G7 without pedal.
Move up 3 frets to 6th pos. and do the same move. With or without the A pedal is G7b9.
Move up 3 more to 9th pos. and do it one more time to get G7#9, then G7b9 and resolve to C ( Cma7/Cadd9 etc) one fret below at 8th position.
So you're doing the same phrase 3 times in a row but it yields different harmonic content in each position. Better still, resolve to C major7 at fret 10 with AB down and string 9 as the root.
This moves works in any key going from 5-1. Of course sometimes you don't want all that altered tension on the 5 chord, and if you're resolving to C minor its generally better to omit the Dom13 voicing. |
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Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
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Posted 20 Jun 2021 5:33 pm
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What Sam outlined is the accurate nuts and bolts of the tri tone sub thing. I think we were typing at the same time  |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 20 Jun 2021 8:51 pm
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The plain old ordinary 9th chord is another Swiss Army knife chord when you drop the root.
E9 no root:
G#-B-D-F# = E9 (3-5-b7-9)
B-D-F#-G# = Bm6 (1-b3-5–6)
G#-B-D-F# = G#m7b5 (1-b3-b5–b7)
D-F#-G#-B = Bb7b9+ (3-#5-7-b9)
Any order of notes constitutes those same chords, so the voicing you choose depends on how you want to voice the next chord. There are a handful of ways to get a 9th chord with a standard E9 setup.
The IVmaj7th can function as a iim9 in a ii-V-I. Either in no pedals on strings 8-6-5-2 or with AB (or BC) pedals down with strings 9-7-6-5
The string 9-6-5 voicing mentioned by Andrew and Sam can be used chromatically on a III-VI-II-V, with or with out engaging the A pedal. Throw in string 7 to alternate the 9th on III and II, and the #5 on VI and V. In the key of G, starting at fret 7 and descending one fret at a time.
Not gonna take up any more of your valuable time typing the intervals 🙄😴
Last edited by Fred Treece on 21 Jun 2021 6:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Sam Conomo
From:
Queensland, Australia
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Posted 20 Jun 2021 11:55 pm Steel
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Yep,
I with you Fred,
It's one of my
Favourite substitutions.
Sam. |
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David Whyte
From:
Ireland
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Posted 21 Jun 2021 2:38 pm
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| Thanks fellas, Im a professional jazz guitarist and these chords I can usually play with my eyes closed, but not yet on the PSG! Whats interesting is that it can be done on E9. If I can get my bebop lines working in E9 I may never go back to regular guitar again!😂 |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 22 Jun 2021 4:52 am
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In your E9 copedent You might try using a half step 5th string lower without lowering the 10th string.
That gives you more intervalic options and gives you 5 whole steps in a row.
Try playing a defending ii V I cycle on 2 strings playing only the 3rd and 7th. Then play those exact same notes on 3 different places on the neck. Once you can do that your altered notes and root tones will be more available.
_________________
Bob |
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