Help with knee levers on old Fender D8

Edward Dixon · From: Crestview Florida

I inherited this guitar from my dad 21 years ago. I think it was made in the 60's. My dad and a guy named Red Rhodes made the knee levers in my dad's machine shop. I never got around to learning how to play it until this year. I put it in the shop for an overhaul in 2010 and it came back without the knee levers hooked up. 4 of the cable ends had been cut off.

Due to the covid lockdown, I started learning how to play and bought a ZB Custom D11/10 w 5 knees that work. I still want to get the knees on this one working too.

I'm thinking it should be pretty straight forward to run the cables from the bell crank on the lever shaft to the fingers. I know very little about how the changer works. I turned the guitar over and it looks like there are 2 fingers per string. Am I correct to assume one raises and the other lowers?

Thanks for anything you can tell me about this guitar.

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"Faith don't need no second opinion."

Edward Dixon · From: Crestview Florida

Here is a shot of one of the changers to show what I am calling the 2 fingers per string. From looking at the end plate it looks like the stop screws are in-line with those fingers. Is that a correct assumption?

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"Faith don't need no second opinion."

Mark Perrodin · From: Tucson Arizona, USA

your dad did a nice job on the knee lever installation. i like the insert on the rear apron that the pedals attach to. really clean. you are correct that the guitarâ€™s changer has one raise and lower for each string. the screws on the back are the tuners for when you have a pedal pressed down. you would tune up at the keyhead and after pressing a pedal, tune the note with those screws. many people have used sho bud barrel tuners and a small angle stop to add extra raises or lowers to a string that needs more than just a single raise or a lower. these guitar are adaptable and with the proper maintenance and set up can be a joy to play. the springs on the bottom of your changer correspond to the strings that are lowered and can be changed to make the pedal action on the lowered strings much easier. if you enjoy tinkering and are able to understand cause and effect related to the way you adjust this guitar, then youâ€™re gonna have a lot of fun with it.

K Maul · From: Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL

That a nice looking 1000. What shop cuts cable ends and renders knee levers inoperable when doing an â€œoverhaulâ€? They are very nice and should be used!
Iâ€™ve had many Fenders over the years. They have a singular charm that not everyone gets. That â€œguy named Red Rhodesâ€ is pretty famous having played with Mike Nesmith, James Taylor, the Byrds, Linda Ronstadt and the Carpenters.
Where in Florida are you? You can send me private message if you donâ€™t want to make it public.
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Kevin Maul: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Decophonic, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing.

Edward Dixon · From: Crestview Florida

That's good news about the springs, the pedals are pretty stiff for my old frame.

The knee levers and attaching hardware, rods and bell cranks were made as a prototype for something Red Rhodes was working on back in the late 80's or early 90's.

Just from looking at it, I'm guessing that for the levers that move left the cable will be attached to the bottom side of the bell crank and to the top side for the levers moving right. Should be simple enough, I just have to find a local machine shop to fabricate a couple of new cable assemblies.

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"Faith don't need no second opinion."

Edward Dixon · From: Crestview Florida

Abe Levy · From: California, USA

Very nice guitar! Silver frame long scale 1000s are very desirable. It looks like yours has been refinished but that wonâ€™t affect the playability. It is most likely a â€˜57 or â€˜58 or possibly a â€˜59.
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Mostly Pre-1970 guitars.

Andrew Goulet · Posted 23 Apr 2021 4:28 pm

Sweet ride! And to have knee levers made by Red Rhodes...

That's a great guitar and it's gonna swing when you really start in with it. Jim Sliff is a Fender guru on here. There's also a Facebook page dedicated to Fender steels.

I played a Fender like this for a long time (one neck, though), and loved it. I don't know much but one thing I can tell you is that you're probably going to want to change out those lower springs. Factory original ones are tighter than a bear in a bucket, almost impossible to play because of the force they bring (I think).
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Edward Dixon · From: Crestview Florida

Edward Dixon · From: Crestview Florida

Problem solved...

I found a picture of the bottom side of this guitar before I sent it to the shop. I have to apologize for the negative comments about the shop cutting cables. The photo shows that only 3 levers were ever connected.

I was under the assumption that because there are more bellcranks attached to the crossrods I needed a cable for each. Spirit Steel in Broken Arrow Okla. made more new cables than I needed. Looking at the old photo, I say they did a good job of cleaning it up.

Looking at this design I am not sure I could attach more than one cable per crossrod and get the stops in tune.

If I wanted to sell this, anybody have a guess what it's worth? I probably won't sell it but my kids might and I would like to know for insurance purposes.

Thanks for all the help,
Ed

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"Faith don't need no second opinion."

Chris Lucker · From: Los Angeles, California USA

One modification that makes a 400 or 1000 easier to tune is changing the endplate tuning screws to cap screws, which yours already have been changed to, but use plain stainless (silver) and black -- or at least add a drop of red Dykem to every other screw so you can more easily identify which screw does what.
The original tuning screws, at least on the silver frame Fenders I have had, were tiny philips heads in black and silver, but they have all be rusty by the time I got the guitars.
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

A "good price" is $900-$1100 for a Model 1000, and $600-$800 for the single neck S8, Model 400. Guitars with the roller bridge and nut usually go at the top end, while earlier guitars (like yours, first-year production) without them go for the lower amount. Cases, bridge-covers, pedals, and cable assemblies tend to be very expensive on the used market.

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