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Topic: Harsh tones on first string |
Nathan Collins
From:
San Francisco, California, USA
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Posted 16 Jun 2021 8:30 pm |
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I just had an acoustic guitar converted for steel playing, with taller bone nut and saddle, and I’m noticing a really harsh tone on the first string, and I’m wondering what I might do to deal with it. Some things I notice:
1) A heavier string (new 13 vs new 16, both D’addario steel) improves things but doesn’t make it go away.
2) It’s better when I play with a plastic thumb pick - unfortunately I’ve never found long bladed plastic fingerpicks akin to my nickel ones, or as comfortable.
3) Nudging the string one way or another on the saddle doesn’t help.
4) Switching bars doesn’t help.
EDIT: Another observation:
5) It doesn't happen on the open string. With the 16 on, I can only hear it when the bar is between the 3rd and 7th frets.
Any tips? Thanks in advance.
Last edited by Nathan Collins on 17 Jun 2021 5:29 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 16 Jun 2021 8:33 pm
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| Sounds like it’s the nut slot itself causing the problem. It might be too narrow or too wide, or it could be the slot is flat. Take a closer look at that. |
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Rob DiStefano
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2021 3:55 am
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Strings intonate off the fingerboard side edge of their nut slots. Nuts need to have their slots back angled, else they are prone to buzzing and/or not intonating well.
_________________
Cavalier Pickups |
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Nathan Collins
From:
San Francisco, California, USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2021 4:56 am
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| One other thing: this doesn’t happen when the I play the string open. With the 16, it’s only when the bar is at the 3rd through 7th frets (using good left hand muting even). If it’s a nut issue wouldn’t it affect the open note as well? |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2021 4:58 am
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when players bring me guitars with strange sounds on a string, there are several things to look at.
first of all, you seem to only be having this issue with one string. all the strings go through the same nut and over the same saddle. that narrows the problem down to three things. the nut, the saddle the string. you have changed the string...now we are down to two.
the nut and the saddle. if the nut is the problem, it would ONLY be the problem on the open string. as soon as you put the bar down, the nut is out of the scenario. so now the nut is out of the picture because you are having the issue at other places on the string.
the problem for me is now narrowed down to the bridge saddle. you said you cant fix the issue by "nudging" the string over on the saddle. you should NOT be able to move the string at the saddle. there has to be a slot cut in the saddle that is on an angle. the exit point of the string has to be higher that the entrance point of the string over the saddle. whats going on with the string is that the exit point on the saddle has a flat spot. try taking a needle file or a blitz saw blade...angle the cut so that the string is now exiting the saddle right at the very front edge and i think this will take care of your problem. do NOT cut the slot any deeper....only the back of the cut will do that, the front cut of the saddle should not be any deeper.
also, look at the saddle itself. is it flat? is it arched? that will tell you where you need to make your exit point on the saddle. you will not need to cut much!! if the saddle is plastic, be even more careful as material will be removed much easier than bone or some composite.
do NOT use just anything to make this cut! only the right kind of file or blade....no kitchen knives! lol
"thats my opinion.....it should be yours"..chet atkins. |
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Nathan Collins
From:
San Francisco, California, USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2021 5:19 am
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| Bill Hatcher wrote: |
the problem for me is now narrowed down to the bridge saddle. you said you cant fix the issue by "nudging" the string over on the saddle. you should NOT be able to move the string at the saddle. there has to be a slot cut in the saddle that is on an angle. the exit point of the string has to be higher that the entrance point of the string over the saddle. whats going on with the string is that the exit point on the saddle has a flat spot. try taking a needle file or a blitz saw blade...angle the cut so that the string is now exiting the saddle right at the very front edge and i think this will take care of your problem. do NOT cut the slot any deeper....only the back of the cut will do that, the front cut of the saddle should not be any deeper.
also, look at the saddle itself. is it flat? is it arched? that will tell you where you need to make your exit point on the saddle. you will not need to cut much!! if the saddle is plastic, be even more careful as material will be removed much easier than bone or some composite.
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To be clear, I can't nudge the string when it's tuned up – I loosened it up and moved it a bit. I don't think the saddle is notched, but maybe it should be? Although I didn't have this issue when I did a home conversion with an unnotched but much shorter classical saddle.
But in any case those are some good tips, and I"ll look into it. Thanks!
Last edited by Nathan Collins on 17 Jun 2021 5:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2021 5:29 am
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| Did you angle the saddle? |
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Nathan Collins
From:
San Francisco, California, USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2021 5:37 am
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| Bill Hatcher wrote: |
| Did you angle the saddle? |
I didn't do anything to the saddle — I didn't make it or install it! But that's a good question. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2021 6:05 am
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| Take it back to whoever converted it to fix the saddle. |
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Nathan Collins
From:
San Francisco, California, USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2021 6:13 am
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| I’ll do that. Thanks for your advice! |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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