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Topic: What would be the best G Tuning for a 12 string non pedal |
Will Brown
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 2 May 2021 5:45 pm |
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| I need help what would be the best tuning for a 12 string non pedal. I would like to keep my GBDGBD in the mix then what would be the best way to go after that and what string gauges to use on the 12 string thanks for your help |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 2 May 2021 7:29 pm Re: What would be the best G Tuning for a 12 string...
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| Will Brown wrote: |
| I need help what would be the best tuning for a 12 string non pedal. I would like to keep my GBDGBD in the mix then what would be the best way to go after that and what string gauges to use on the 12 string thanks for your help |
Not a direct answer but a few things to consider.
E will give you G6, Em, Em7
F will give you G7
F + A will give you G7, G9, Dm
F# will give you Gmaj9, Bm
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – D G D G B D
7 String | G9 – D G B D F A D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Posted 3 May 2021 4:01 am
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Reece's extended C6 is a great 12 string tuning. Never heard of a G based 12 string tuning.
_________________
Check out the Steel Guitar Union Hall Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@steelguitarunionhall |
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Jean-Sebastien Gauthier
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 3 May 2021 5:37 am
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If I had to tune a 12 string in G thats what I would try first
D E F G B D E G B D E G |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 3 May 2021 7:27 am
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if you want to keep your gbdgbd in the tuning, you are really looking to just extend your 6 string tuning.
first i would consider one lower string. ideally, you would add a low D, but the sound of the big low d string will depend on your guitar, so just put a string on the bottom that will let you tune from D up or down a step depending on what you need in the bass.
that leaves you 5 more strings to add. you should consider what kind of technique you want to use. if you keep your gbdgbd tuning on strings (low to high) 11-6 and your added bass string on 12, then your added strings will be such that you will use them in conjunction with your tuning and not forming a new tuning.
first note i would add would be the 6th in the key of G....an E on your 5th string. that wound give you a G6 which can also be an Emin which can also be a Cmaj7 and so on according to your bass note choice. now you have 4 strings left.
next i would go diatonic and add F F# G and A. you might not be able to pull a 010 string up to A. if you cant, then you can consider adding TWO lower strings.
what you are going to end up with when you extend out your GBDGBD tuning is reaching over with your little finger a lot to strike the added diatonic strings. thats a challenging technique.
now you see why most 10 and 12 string players use a tuning that starts out low and has not repetitive notes ala reeces tuning.
so, when you keep in your 6 string tuning and add to it, you will also have to change your right hand technique quite a bit to take advantage of the added strings.
you could also consider combining TWO totally different tunings on one 12 string neck. if you have skill in C6, then you could consider the lower 6 strings your GBDGBD tuning and then the upper 6 strings a 6th tuning....why not G6? if you do that, then cut the nut down at the strings that start the new tuning so you will have a flat plane where the bar makes contact with ALL the strings no matter the diameter. i have a guitar set up like this where a larger wound string is in the middle of the tuning next to an unwound string. i have no problem playing it.
i am thinking and rambling at the same time....hope this info gives you some ideas to consider. |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 3 May 2021 7:51 am
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I almost suggested GBDGBDGBDGBD as a bit of a joke, but if you really just liked G tuning and wanted to have the world's widest range on a lap steel that would likely get you there! 
I guess I'd start by saying, from a six string 1-3-5 type tuning, what do you want extra strings to give you? Chordal options? Extended range? A bit of both?
Agree with a lot of the suggestions...JeanSebastian's is close to what I might try...basically G6 / G13. If you like the feel of GBDGBD together without the sixth...then you might consider Bill's suggestion of two tunings, one neck. If it were me as a player, I'd want my main tuning (I assume GBDGBD) on the far/high strings so you wouldn't accidentally hit "the weird stuff" on strums, and maybe keep something slightly funkier (B11, a 7th or 9th tuning) on the low strings for chordal accompaniment.
Could get some cool chords out of this:
F B D E G A | G B D G B D
b7 3 5 6 1 9 | 1 3 5 1 3 5
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Will Brown
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 3 May 2021 8:40 am G tunning
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| Mr Hatcher that is what i was thinking of doing. Is have my G tuning on the bottom 6 string and a C6th tuning on the top 6 string that way i have two tunings i can play on one neck and one guitar thanks i am glad some one else besides myself thought this would work Thanks |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 3 May 2021 9:28 am Re: G tunning
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| Will Brown wrote: |
| Mr Hatcher that is what i was thinking of doing. Is have my G tuning on the bottom 6 string and a C6th tuning on the top 6 string that way i have two tunings i can play on one neck and one guitar thanks i am glad some one else besides myself thought this would work Thanks |
one of the wonderful tuning features that was lost in the steel guitar world is when players stopped experimenting with their very own tunings.
heres what i do. i work on a lot of instruments for folks...mainly underam guitars. when i remove strings, sometimes they are not in bad shape and i will keep them. when i want to experiment with tunings, i have a drawer full of different strings to tinker with and then when i lock in a good gauge for a set THEN i will install a new set.
i dont know what kind of guitar you are working on, but if its a lap guitar with a nut that is made of say aluminum you are going to need to cut the nut slots to allow for string 6 where your new 6th tuning starts to be on the same level as the unwound string 7 from your gbd tuning. if you are retroing say an old pedal guitar and no longer using the pedals, then you will be dealing with a roller nut maybe. you might have to make a new roller for a string or two to level all the strings out.
what kind of guitar are you going to string this up on?
didnt we horse trade some guitars in the past? did i get some fenders from you? |
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Will Brown
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 3 May 2021 11:05 am g tunning
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| Bill its a 12 string non pedal was a pedal real old pedal i made into a non pedal with roller nuts.And yes years ago proberly 22-25yrs ago when i had over 300 fender stringmasters Dual pros 400 1000 you bought a coupler off me. they use to call me Fender Will |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 3 May 2021 3:10 pm
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Maybe...
C E G B D G B D | F A C E
The string 12 C could be reentrant if that works better.
The FACE would start on the F below the higher G.
C major, G major, F major
E minor, A minor, D minor
Plus a bunch of extended chords in different keys.
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – D G D G B D
7 String | G9 – D G B D F A D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Will Brown
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 3 May 2021 3:21 pm g tuning
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| Allan Thanks for all the help i havent decided which way i am going to go but your coming up with some good ideas Thanks |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 3 May 2021 4:39 pm Re: g tuning
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| Will Brown wrote: |
| Allan Thanks for all the help i havent decided which way i am going to go but your coming up with some good ideas Thanks |
No problem Will. After learning a bit more about you here, I have the feeling that if you knew half of what you do, you'd still know more than twice as much as I know!  |
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Will Brown
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 3 May 2021 5:31 pm g tuning
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| Allan thanks for the kind words. Your pretty sharp on this stuff tunings etc and your always ready to jump in and help a person. and you have some great tuning ideas. and not affraid to share them. and some great playing. and i do thank you for helping me on this i am trying out some of your suggestions as we speak. so if you come up with any others let me know thanks |
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Will Brown
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 3 May 2021 5:51 pm gtuning
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| Allan let me run this by you. for years i been thinking about setting up a non pedal in a banjo tuning. I know this is kind of whacked out but sometimes i think outside the box. but see what kind of tuning you can figure out. I know that a banjo tuning is real close to a dobro tuning but not quite. I think maybe setting this 12 string up with the G tuning for the dobro end of it& then the banjo tuning and i can play both dobro& banjo tunes.HA i am not drunk or high I am just Thinking. anyway think it over. like the first 6 strings G tuning skip a string space then go with the banjo tuning. I dont know maybe I am thinking to hard. and trying to get to far ouit there. what do you think. Now dont laugh to hard while your answering me back. Have a good Night |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 3 May 2021 9:19 pm
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I don’t play banjo, or more than 7 strings on lap steel. But just for fun...
Banjo = g D G B D
Open G Dobro = G B D G B D
Versatile Tuning = G B D E F A C ( full G13 with 9 & 11)
So let’s start “low†to high
g D G B D G B D that gives us 8 strings and huge open G chord.
Next we want to add EFAC strings. It would make sense to sprinkle them through the 8 strings by pitch, but you’d lose your open G sequences for straight ahead strumming.
To have a “banjo†+ “Dobro†+12 string lap steel, this is what I get:
g D G B D G B D [octave drop] F A C E
or
F A c e g [octave drop] D G B D G B D
Kind of a thought game really. But if you have a 12 string and a bunch of strings...
I kinda suspect that when the game has been played, you’ll probably end up settling in with a 12 string tuning that’s been tested and tried by someone who has actually played one.
Then again you never know. Maybe “Fender Will†will ride again, travelling the world and spreading the gospel of his new 12 string tuning! |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 4 May 2021 7:29 am
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STRING GAUGES:
https://www.b0b.com/infoedu/gauges.htm
I would start out ditto'ing up on the ideas of Mr. Hatcher (and others), that is keep your exact preferred tuning with it's inner intervals inviolate, and float other intervals in there above, below, kinda willy-nilly, umm... how else etc...?
| Quote: |
"...what you are going to end up with when you extend out your GBDGBD tuning is reaching over with your little finger a lot to strike the added diatonic strings. thats a challenging technique.
now you see why most 10 and 12 string players use a tuning that starts out low and has not repetitive notes ala reeces tuning.
so, when you keep in your 6 string tuning and add to it, you will also have to change your right hand technique quite a bit to take advantage of the added strings.
you could also consider combining TWO totally different tunings on one 12 string neck." |
STRING GAUGES:
https://www.b0b.com/infoedu/gauges.htm
Repeating pitches during the experiment phase is fine by me - I have never been able to get useful, tone-y and LOUD notes out of anything smaller than 10's or bigger than 70's anyway, so it's a brick wall unless and until you want to dig into actual bass strings and bass tuners. And it is surprising just how much volume can still be had from a soft, low-tuned string, so you can just start with what you might consider to be the highest pitch imaginable (for EACH string position, I mean) and still get some useful experiments working. It is also very handy to locate some sort of "capo" early on, just any old thing you can cram under the strings to lift them up at the ostensible 2nd, 3rd, even the 5th "fret" as this will allow your experiments to swing a good bit wierder and woolier.
Any old thing will do, but once you've got your capo-acquisitive hat on, who knows - keep on, you may find a really good one somewhere. You can always re-adjust back to the "correct" sorts of methods - and key - once the frenzy wears off. I've found the kitchen utility/utensil drawer to be a surprising source of all sorts of latently-musical adaptations, handles and levers and... stuff. Although, if the resident foodies do end up re-acquiring your capos on a regular basis, discretion, humor and/or a bit of treachery may be applicable.
OH AND STRING GAUGES: Cut and paste, tidy this up, print dozens, paper your walls, tattoo it backwards and upside down in a secret location so you can use it in prison etc... etc. - this is SURELY the SINGLE MOST BESTEST EVER steel guitar resource. Ever:
https://www.b0b.com/infoedu/gauges.htm
Last edited by David Mason on 4 May 2021 8:03 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 4 May 2021 7:38 am
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excellent info shared here on tunings specific and in general.
there seem to be two camps on this.
one premise is to only stick with established tunings as you will find more material out there for these tunings whether it be recordings or teaching material. this camp will always advise to NOT have a personal tuning that only you use....for your own good..
the other camp is the folks who are searching for something tuning wise. they may never find it, or they may try and try and never accomplish, but the journey of musically and technically searching will benefit them in becoming more individual in their playing. back in the day, there were players who before they went on break on a gig would detune their guitars so no one would learn their tuning secrets that they have worked out. when everyone started using pretty much standardized tunings, things started sounding very same-ish amongst players. no where is this more evident than in the E9 country pedal world. |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 10 May 2021 8:35 am
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Will,
Have you tried any of the tuning ideas out yet? |
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Will Brown
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 10 May 2021 9:02 am g tuning
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| Allan i have am trying the first 2 you posted i havent decided which one i am going to stick with yet but you sent some good options thanks |
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