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Topic: Help please: Open D strings too floppy on 22.5†lap steel |
Steven Schwartz
From:
Longview Washington, USA
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Posted 20 Feb 2021 2:06 pm |
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I am using a set of .013 to .056 strings on my 22 1/2†lap steel.
The low strings are very floppy. If I tune up to Open E the strings low strings are much better.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. |
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Jeff Highland
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 20 Feb 2021 2:22 pm
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That's what I found when I had my Ricky silver hawaiian. Open E worked better. Whilst you could increase string guages, I found bigger strings on a short scale not to my liking
_________________
Duesenberg Fairytale
1949 Supro Supreme
1950 National New Yorker
2008 Highland Baritone Weissenborn
2020 Highland New Yorker.
2020 Highland Mohan Veena
2021 Highland Weissencone |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 20 Feb 2021 2:29 pm
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Asher Electro Hawaiian strings are somewhat higher gauges in the set .015-.068
...but they seem to be sold out, at Asher and Elderly, anyway...maybe elsewhere....
_________________
www.facebook.com/swingaliband & a few more....
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Greg Forsyth
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 20 Feb 2021 2:32 pm
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Hi,
John Ely has a very good explanation of string tension on his website.
Here's is a link:
https://www.hawaiiansteel.com/learning/gauges.php
I had the same problem with the bass string in Open D. Even with a 58. John's string chart suggests using strings between 60-64 for that note.
Now I have to get my hands on a string within those parameters! |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 20 Feb 2021 4:54 pm
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I think a low tuning like DADF#AD or CGCGCE would be floppy on a short scale no matter what gauge string was used. Too heavy a gauge might just be dead sounding especially the low D, but you might try something like .068 or 70 on the bottom and go from there.
_________________
Kevin Maul: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Decophonic, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 20 Feb 2021 5:04 pm
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Try a string tension calculator. Here's one - https://tension.stringjoy.com/
If you't talking a typical "medium gauge" 13-56 set on Vestapol Open D: D A D F# A D, let's say something like
13,17,26,36,46,56 hi-lo => around 19,18,25,28,25,17 lb tension. To me, strings 1, 2, and 6 are gonna feel floppy to me.
To get the tensions more even across, and up to around what I believe most people think is a more-or-less reasonable tension for console/lap steel like 25-26 pounds per string, the following gauges would get you in the ballpark on a 22.5" scale:
15,20p,26w,34,46,70 hi-lo => around 25,25,25,26,25,26 lb tension.
I tend to use Open D and related tunings for slide guitar a lot, some with 22.5-23" scales, and this gets in the ballpark of what feels right to me. The only problem I sometimes have is getting anything like a bloody 68-70 gauge string through either the hole at the bridge or the hole in the tuning gear. So be aware of that unless you wanna ream the holes out, which I don't recommend on a valuable vintage instrument. On the bridge end, you have to worry about the knot at the ball end, which is even wider than the string itself. So sometimes I have to settle for something in the 60-65 range. 68 or 70 is stock issue for the low C on pedal steel C6, which is more typically 24-24.25" scale, and they honestly feel fairly floppy to me.
I can get away with variances of around .001" on the top 3 strings, and maybe .002-.003" on the bottom strings and it still feels good. I believe the middle of John Ely's chart is geared to a medium-scale (24-24.5") guitar. My take is that the bottom string on a 22.5" scale tuned low like this can take an even larger string than the low end of that chart indicates.
I have a bunch of guitars with odd tunings, so I stopped messing around with "string packs" for this kind of application and just get singles. I usually get them in bulk (a dozen of each string) at juststrings.com - they have a wide variety of gauges, including .068 and .070, IMO at a good price. But not everybody wants to buy a dozen and there are lots of places that carry a good selection of single strings. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 20 Feb 2021 6:48 pm
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the info given here is excellent. you have not mentioned what kind of guitar you have.
the upper strings will be fine when you go up in diameter on a 22.5" guitar. i have found that the lower strings may be an issue. unless your guitar has a lot of mass and strength, the big 070 on the bottom might have better tension to it, but it can have a tendency to be a bit thuddy feeling and not really give a real precise tonal center to the note.
also, if you have a standard tuning machine on that 070, you might have a harder time keeping such a big string from breaking as you put it on. i take a drill bit and open up the hole and then i take files and 220 grit sandpaper and smooth down the openings on both sides of the hole in the machine gear post. then when i install the big strings,i pre wrap them around something like a big screwdriver so the string wont start out with a tight bend at the post. might be worth a try. also, before you pull the string down and start winding, try doing a test wind at the very end of the string....the area that you would normally cut off after you install. if the string breaks while you are installing it, you can try again after some tweaking rather than having to discard the string on your first try if it breaks.
having said all that, if you find that the largest string on the bottom is not sounding good or working for you, you can always do away with the big bomber on the bottom and move everything over one string and add a smaller string on the top and extend your tuning out a couple of tones. in some situations, i have found that i can use more on the top of the guitar than is really musically useful on a huge string on the bottom.
another option if the big bottom string doesnt work well is to remove it and put a smaller string on and try some different tuning notes that would be higher. its always interesting to see what might work out down there other than a lower note than your next to the last string. a higher note than your next to the last string may give you some interesting chord voicings.
your mileage may vary. |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 20 Feb 2021 11:04 pm
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I found a 62 to be the perfect compromise between too fat and too floppy, for low D on the short scale.
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – D G D G B D
7 String | G9 – D G B D F A D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Steven Schwartz
From:
Longview Washington, USA
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Posted 21 Feb 2021 2:48 pm Thank you
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| Thank you everyone for taking the time to help me out. What a wonderful community. |
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Steven Pearce
From:
Port Orchard Washington, USA
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Steven Schwartz
From:
Longview Washington, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2021 1:35 pm Thank you to all who took the time to reply
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I found John Pearse New D Tuning strings in the forum store. The feel really nice with my open D tuning.
Thank you all for taking the time to help me. You all are a wonderful community.
Steve
Longview Wa |
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