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Topic: xxx Sho-Bud Maverick tips xxxx ...nope..nope... *DEKLEY* |
Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 6 Jul 2020 2:41 pm |
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I've got a guy coming over to have me look at his steel. He's a beginner. He doesn't know what he has (given to him, I believe). No name, brown 'tolex' covering (is what he called it), 3 pedals, 1 lever. Sounds like a Mav to me. Were any of the other starter steels covered in brown material?
It plays some, now, and he hopes that I can adjust it to play better.
I'm comfortable diving in on any all pull guitar, no worries. I've never been under a pull release and specifically not under a Maverick.
I'm studying up on tuning the pedals-down at the headstock and then tuning the open strings at the endplate, as well as the procedure for the lowering lever, assuming that's what it has.
Are there any other things I might want to tweak? Can you fine-tune pulls with hole selection on the swivel-balance pullers? Is the word 'fine-tune' a joke to begin with on a Mav?
I just want to be ready meet anything I might encounter on this guitar. The dude's a fine guitarist and I want his steel to be as good as it can be.
Last edited by Jon Light on 10 Jul 2020 1:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Charlie Hansen
From:
Halifax, NS Canada and Various Southern Towns.
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Posted 6 Jul 2020 5:25 pm
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The MSA Sidekick had brown mac tac covering.
_________________
I don't know much but what I know I know very well.
Carter S-10 3X5, Peavey Nashville 112, plus Regal dobro and too many other instruments to mention.
Bluegrass Island CFCY FM 95.1 Charlottetown, PE, Canada, on the web at cfcy.fm.
A Touch Of Texas CIOE FM 97.5 Sackville, NS, Canada,
on the web at cioe975.ca. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 6 Jul 2020 5:35 pm
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Ah. In that case I'll refrain from making any assumptions until I see it.
I expect that was a pull release as well. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 10 Jul 2020 1:18 pm
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Ok. The guitar is a Dekley student model. There are a few things about it that are unfortunate (the nylon leg receptacles) but it is not only well designed....it sounds really good. I am very pleased to have done a few tweaks and made it several notches better for the guy. It only has a single lever lowering 4 & 8.
So here's the question--
In spite of what I thought I knew about pull-release, as I found this guitar, all the fingers except 4 & 8 are at rest against the hard stop of the changer cut-out.
The raises tune with the nylon nut. The guitar is solidly in tune.
But I thought the nature of a pull-release (which I have never dealt with) was to have the fingers suspended when open? 'Tune the pedals-down at the headstock. Release the pedal and tune the open string at the endplate.' But these raises tune just fine when treated like an all-pull. I am confused.
Bottom line -- I was ready to go in and make adjustments but it was just playing so well in tune that I did NOT mess with it. Just set up the pedals for much better height and playability. The guy is semi-local and I will be very happy to stick with him should any problems arise. Not being a 'collectible', I am considering adding a lever with totally non-Dekley parts in order to extend the amount of time and learning he can get out of this guitar (which was gifted to him). Except for the leg thing, I really like this guitar! |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 10 Jul 2020 2:53 pm
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I've never seen one of those, thanks for sharing the pics. Does this guitar have any tuning stop screws at the end plate, or only the nylons? Do you have a pic of the top of the changer from that end?
Pull-release can be set up a number of ways and yield the same effect. Using the body stop for the lowest note works fine on raise-only or no-change strings. It's more typical, particularly on older P-R guitars to have the forward body stop the finger when pulled to the highest raise (tuned at the key head) and have a screw stop on the end plate to tune the open (or lowered) note when released. The reason for the screw stops at the end plate is is to provide an easily accessible hard stop to set the overall range of travel between the lowest and highest possible notes on a given string, with a hard stop at both ends of that range.
With that type of setup, raise-only strings have a firm stop at both the open and raised note. If the string has both a raise and lower, the screw stop would tune the lowest note, the open note would be tuned with a nylon (or similar means) on a rod connected to the lowering pedal or lever; that pedal or lever linkage is held tight against an open stop with a spring; activating the pedal or lever in opposition to the spring tension "releases" the finger to the lowered note at the screw stop. This is the same basic principle as what you appear to have here on strings 4&8, except it the lower stop is apparently not adjustable, it sounds like you still just tune the raise with a nylon and that finger never reaches the forward body stop.
There have been a lot of different approaches to pull release, including the push-pull, but in the end they all do basically the same thing. In all cases the raise linkage on any string that both raises and lowers needs to have adequate slack to allow the finger to be able to move to the full distance to its lowest position. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 10 Jul 2020 3:21 pm
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I did NOT take comprehensive photos and I regret that. This gives an overview. ABC pedal 'cross-shafts' are swivel arms and they are all stacked on the same axle. All the swivel arms hit positive stops, as noted in the photo. Everything clicks and feels solid. If it weren't for the leg attachments (which someone addressed in this thread):
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=123012
this would be a pretty super little steel.
My brain is a little fried so I need a break before I can take in your post, Ian, but thanks for giving me some material to think about.
I was going to plant a seed that maybe he would want to consider upgrading to my BMI down the line but....this sounds better than the BMI. If I can rig another lever then I think he's got something to work with for a good while.
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 10 Jul 2020 3:50 pm
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| My brain was starting to hurt but I see now that there are actually three raise pull arms stacked together there. It's hard to see in the straight-down pics except for the thicker shadow, but they are visible in the pic in the other thread you linked. That's similar to a Moyo, or a Fender PS210 type pull setup. There is elegance in simplicity. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 10 Jul 2020 3:55 pm
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| This was supposedly stowed away for years, untouched. It has seen no maintenance until today. Nothing at all is binding, everything moves freely, it totally plays and plays well. I'm truly impressed. |
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Bruce Blackburn
From:
Nashville, Tennessee
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Posted 25 Oct 2020 3:39 am
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I started playing pedal steel on this exact model. It tuned like a push pull. It was a cheap build but played in tune. The tone was acceptable. It was a surprisingly good student model guitar. It was better than the Sho-Bud. It had 3 knees. The list price was $510.00. I bought mine new from Sonny Curtis when he had his store on the south side of Columbus.
_________________
Rittenberry Prestige D10, Dekley S14U, (stolen) ZumSteel D10
(2) Nashville 112's Nashville 1000, Profex II Kemper Profiler Powered, Quilter Tone Block 202, Benado Steel Dream |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 25 Oct 2020 4:20 am
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The owner of this steel is a wonderful guitarist and recording artist. He recently presented his first recording project using steel (not as a lead instrument) and this Dekley sounded great.
There was talk of me adding an F lever (with totally non-matching hardware or engineering). If this were a wood body, it would have been done in a couple of hours, piece of cake. I am not as confident or proficient, drilling/tapping this body. We'll see. I'd really like him to have the second lever and he's not in a position (covid economy) to buy another steel. |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Kelcey ONeil
From:
Sevierville, TN
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Posted 25 Oct 2020 5:48 am
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That’s how most pull release changers are done these days, regular pull rods with nylon nuts and a tuning window, with the raise only strings resting against the body.
Classic pull release models like Marlen and Sho Bud Permanents had male tuning screws in the endplate for the fingers to rest against, the raises were tuned at the key head first, then the open tuning adjusted with the screws. Lower only strings are tuned open at the key head, and the lowered note with the tuning screws. Strings both raised and lowered, the raises are tuned at the key head and the open note tuned with either a tuning nut on the lowering rod( thus the suspended concept you mentioned), or the stops on the cross shaft that lower that string; the lowered note is then tuned with the screw in the endplate.
Multiple raises and lowers per string are possible with either an Emmons Push Pull style adjustable swivel, or careful setup of the timing and pedal stops.
Pull release has unfortunately become a rather misunderstood and unappreciated design, it’s more versatile than most realize and is extremely reliable and smooth. Most importantly, it’s sounds great! |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 25 Oct 2020 6:04 am
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Thank you Kelcey. That's good tutorial stuff.
This guitar was in excellent, stable tune when he brought it to me....remarkable, considering its history of disuse. I expected to spend a bunch of time working on it and instead found a steel needing precious little work. But I want to be prepared to fine tune it for him (or show him stuff like your post) for the future. |
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Kelcey ONeil
From:
Sevierville, TN
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Posted 25 Oct 2020 6:26 am
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| No problem! Adding a LKL would be fairly simple, almost anything would work. As for drilling the aluminum, a #8 sheet metal screw is what it appears is being used, you should only have to drill a hole, tapping shouldn’t be necessary if the hole is the correct size. |
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