Do you ever stand and play lap steel like a dobro player?

Mark Mansueto · Post by **Mark Mansueto** » 29 Jan 2020 4:51 am

Mark Eaton, thanks for the info on the guitar and strap. I will need a good strap so now I know to just bite the bullet and get the right one. As someone who uses the belly bar, do you find that the bar digs into your gut? Knowing that there is more pressure from the guitar being pulled toward you with the strap than a standard guitar it looks like it could be less comfortable than a pad. Nice guitar BTW.

Peter, I tend to have back issues so anything I can do to minimize strain will be important.

Peter Jacobs · Post by **Peter Jacobs** » 29 Jan 2020 5:31 am

Mark - weight of the instrument, balance (is it tipping away from me too much), and my posture are the biggest issues related to any back and shoulder pain issues. You may need to build up to an entire night of using a strap. Also, you'll want to experiment with strap length, so see where your arms are most comfortable.

Jack Hanson · Post by **Jack Hanson** » 29 Jan 2020 8:46 am

Mark Mansueto wrote:For what it's worth, this was me the other night:

That's exactly how I prefer to do it.

I have multiple Deluxe34 stands and use them for everything from my Weissenborn and resonators to paired lap steels. Much like Mick Jagger, I tried, and I tried, and I tried, and I tried... but I can't get no satisfaction from playing any style of lap guitar while standing up, dangling from a strap.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 29 Jan 2020 9:29 am

Good points Peter.

Mark, I actually pulled it out of the case just now and hooked up the strap and belly bar to be able to answer your question, which I could have probably answered without doing that - because it has never really occurred to me that that it digs into my gut. And sure enough - it doesn't.

It is an elegant design. No surprise there - as pointed out by Bruce Bouton in an earlier post in the thread, the belly bar was designed by Tim Scheerhorn, who along with his highly coveted resonator guitars has built some lap steels. Then Tim and Bill Asher worked out some sort of arrangement for Bill to use it with his lap steels.

Tim is one of your fellow Michiganders, and if memory serves, prior to him giving up the corporate life, he was an engineer/designer at Steelcase Office Furniture. So the engineering background served him well in the luthier world.

My Asher is a beefy guitar. It tips the scale at about eight pounds. That's where the wide supportive strap comes in. It helps to keep everything in balance as pointed out by Peter.

A few years ago Cindy Cashdollar played nearby with Albert Lee. Man - was that an amazing show! I was visiting with Cindy afterwards and we were talking guitars and she is long time Asher player. But that evening for standup lap steel playing she was using a Lap King with a strap and she told me that Jerry Douglas talked her into ordering one. Cindy is a petite woman (her words) and she felt that playing an Asher standing with a strap would be too much for her to manage, so she only plays Bill's guitars across her lap.

So on the subject of the Lap King Stage Hand, I really like that as well - I think it's a great device. 150 bucks.

Bill's belly bar kit also includes a Lakota Leathers strap and a strap lock for $165. Plenty of folks use Lakota straps (which are very supple) for dobro and lap steel, but as I've mentioned I prefer the beefier Poff strap. I don't recall what Bill charges for just the belly bar plus ferrules to be installed in the side of the guitar.

Between the Asher belly bar and the Lap King Stage Hand, either device works very well.
For myself, on a valuable guitar, I would have a luthier do the install. I'd be too nervous to try to do it myself.

Mark Mansueto · Post by **Mark Mansueto** » 29 Jan 2020 11:59 am

That's some great information that I'm sure will help me avoid some of the trial and error I expect to experience while searching the right setup that (hopefully) works for me. I really do like my stand if I'm not dragging it on and off the stage but I would have loved to have the option to use a strap the other night. Would also eliminate another piece of gear haul to rehearsals and I also like the thought of being able to move around while playing like I do with a standard guitar.

Brooks Montgomery · Post by **Brooks Montgomery** » 29 Jan 2020 12:15 pm

I'll add to Mark E's comments. I played another bar gig last night with my Asher EHJ with the belly bar. It is actually way more comfortable and easier to play than an acoustic dobro standing up. For me. I'm not sure why? It just fits really well (must be my custom beer gut).

I too have a Poff strap, but I actually prefer the soft leather strap that comes with the Asher belly bar. I leave it attached all the time, and because it's quite pliable, it goes into the soft travel case from Asher without any problems. It's quite comfortable. My Poff kind of fights back when I'm moving my arms around, in and out of the strap.
The Poff is very rigid, and it definitely is incredible for 'load bearing', but, as I mentioned, not as cushy for my (tender I guess beer drinking) arms

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 29 Jan 2020 3:27 pm

Jack Hanson wrote:
I have multiple Deluxe34 stands and use them for everything from my Weissenborn and resonators to paired lap steels. Much like Mick Jagger, I tried, and I tried, and I tried, and I tried... but I can't get no satisfaction from playing any style of lap guitar while standing up, dangling from a strap.

We are very fortunate to have Mark Roeder building his Deluxe34 stands - excellent products.

As far as the comment regarding a lap style guitar dangling from a strap - if my lap steel and resonators were "dangling" - I wouldn't be playing them standing with a strap either.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 29 Jan 2020 3:51 pm

Brooks Montgomery wrote:I'll add to Mark E's comments. I played another bar gig last night with my Asher EHJ with the belly bar. It is actually way more comfortable and easier to play than an acoustic dobro standing up. For me. I'm not sure why? It just fits really well (must be my custom beer gut).

I too have a Poff strap, but I actually prefer the soft leather strap that comes with the Asher belly bar. I leave it attached all the time, and because it's quite pliable, it goes into the soft travel case from Asher without any problems. It's quite comfortable. My Poff kind of fights back when I'm moving my arms around, in and out of the strap.
The Poff is very rigid, and it definitely is incredible for 'load bearing', but, as I mentioned, not as cushy for my (tender I guess beer drinking) arms

Variety is the spice of life and all that, Brooks. If the Lakota strap Bill Asher sells works for you - so much the better. It's a helluva lot cheaper than a Bobby Poff strap!

Level of playing skill aside - I guess I've been playing dobro for such a long time standing that I don't even think twice about it. But that really only happened for me when I received my first Poff strap in 2007. Prior to that going back to the '70s I had some crappy straps and was constantly adjusting - like when your underwear is too tight and you're trying to get comfortable. We've seen those old photos of Brother Oswald playing with Roy Acuff with the really skinny strap - I'd been through a couple of those, and they didn't cut it. Well actually - they did cut it - like into my shoulder after about 20 minutes.

When I started on dobro in 1976 I used to attend a monthly bluegrass/acoustic jam held at a middle school in the Bay Area, and it's still going to this day but I haven't been in years. It's over two hours each way from where I live now.

There would be several jam circles going on inside the cafeteria and outside in the quad if the weather was nice. And as is the nature of bluegrass jams with the various circles of players, you move around from one to the other throughout the day. So for the first year I'd be hauling around a folding chair with my dobro and in joining a circle I'd sit down to play. After awhile it hit me that this just wasn't getting it done. Hauling the chair around was getting old. The top pros - Oswald, Josh Graves, Mike Auldridge, and just coming onto the scene, Jerry Douglas - when performing, they all played standing with straps.

So I bought a strap and went for the "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" approach. It took awhile. Definite learning curve there.

Peter Jacobs · Post by **Peter Jacobs** » 30 Jan 2020 5:50 am

Long time Forumites probably remember when Ted Smith of Melobar was here talking about a new-tangled device that bolts onto an ordinary, unsuspecting lap steel. The “outrigger” was a Fiberglas shell shaped like a reso filled with styrofoam (it had a black plastic cover and fabric to hide the foam) that screwed into inserts drilled into the guitar with a couple of thumbscrews. I’ll see if I can find some pics of it.

It worked great and I used this combo for about 5 years, until the Fiberglas around the end pin started to crack. That’s what made me want to get something custom.

Necessity is a mother, or something like that.

Peter Jacobs · Post by **Peter Jacobs** » 30 Jan 2020 5:56 am

Found pics:

Melobar with Outrigger

StrapSteel (note asymmetrical body shape):

Mark Mansueto · Post by **Mark Mansueto** » 30 Jan 2020 10:29 am

Peter, how is the outrigger attached to the Melobar?

Peter Jacobs · Post by **Peter Jacobs** » 30 Jan 2020 10:44 am

Mark - two thumbscrews go through the back of the Outrigger into threaded inserts that I had to drill into the steel. I’ll have to look for a photo.

Bob Stone · Post by **Bob Stone** » 31 Jan 2020 2:48 pm

Check out AJ Ghent. He's all over YouTube.

Peter Jacobs · Post by **Peter Jacobs** » 4 Feb 2020 9:43 am

Mark Mansueto wrote:Peter, how is the outrigger attached to the Melobar?

Sorry for the delay - I was out of town until last night. Here are a couple of pics of the Ted Smith Outrigger. Might spark some ideas for anyone looking to build something.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 4 Feb 2020 2:14 pm

Bob Stone wrote:Check out AJ Ghent. He's all over YouTube.

Why did I know five days ago when I saw "last post" in this thread was by Bob, he was going to recommend checking out AJ Ghent?

Yeah - AJ is a great player! But like pedal steel ace Gary Morse who sometimes doubles on standup with a strap lap steel, AJ lays the guitar almost flat across his body like a regular electric guitar. I suppose one can get used to anything, but I have difficult time wrapping my head around this technique.

Mark Mansueto · Post by **Mark Mansueto** » 4 Feb 2020 5:19 pm

Peter Jacobs wrote:
Mark Mansueto wrote:Peter, how is the outrigger attached to the Melobar?
Sorry for the delay - I was out of town until last night. Here are a couple of pics of the Ted Smith Outrigger. Might spark some ideas for anyone looking to build something.

Thanks, Peter, that looks really interesting. Looks like the steel is encapsulated in foam and then a hard outer shell?

Mark Mansueto · Post by **Mark Mansueto** » 4 Feb 2020 5:28 pm

Mark Eaton wrote:
Bob Stone wrote:Check out AJ Ghent. He's all over YouTube.
Why did I know five days ago when I saw "last post" in this thread was by Bob, he was going to recommend checking out AJ Ghent?

Yeah - AJ is a great player! But like pedal steel ace Gary Morse who sometimes doubles on standup with a strap lap steel, AJ lays the guitar almost flat across his body like a regular electric guitar. I suppose one can get used to anything, but I have difficult time wrapping my head around this technique.

I've seen this playing position before but I don't recall who the player was. I think if I was going to play with a lap steel flat against my body I would play it with a finger slide like standard guitar. In fact, my acoustic lap steel is a converted 12 string acoustic so maybe I'll experiment with that a bit (similar to the one in my avatar).

Peter Jacobs · Post by **Peter Jacobs** » 6 Feb 2020 4:40 am

Mark Mansueto wrote:
Peter Jacobs wrote:
Mark Mansueto wrote:Peter, how is the outrigger attached to the Melobar?
Looks like the steel is encapsulated in foam and then a hard outer shell?
Thatâ€™s exactly it. The back shell is fiberglass and thereâ€™s a thin plastic top piece. Black fabric covers the styrofoam so it all blends in visually.

Veit Doehler · Post by **Veit Doehler** » 7 Feb 2020 7:07 am

Seems like Alvino Rey just took the neck off of a Standard acoustic guitar and fit an electric steel guitar - in his case a fry pan - into the rest of the body. He probably only played that sitting and was using the guítar body only as a camouflage. But if you find a way to securely fix the steel it might work standing up as well.

Greg Forsyth · Post by **Greg Forsyth** » 24 Aug 2020 10:14 am

Check out the rig that Megan Lovell of Larkin Poe uses to hold her Rick while standing. Shown @ 2:24 of the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olg70f9HibQ

Bob Womack · Post by **Bob Womack** » 24 Aug 2020 11:24 am

It's a Morrell lap steel guitar stand, if you can find one these days.

Bob

Mike Bacciarini · Post by **Mike Bacciarini** » 28 Aug 2020 10:00 am

I made my own belly bar from 5/8” rod covered in heat shrink. Put some metal inserts into the wood holes so they wouldn’t loosen up. It does dig in a bit, but I set mine right above the belt and it feels secure. Sure is nice to be able to stand more than sit during a set.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 28 Aug 2020 10:50 am

Nice work Mike!

I should take a fresh photo because the belly bar isn’t easy to see against the black sofa background, but here is my Asher with belly bar attached. You can see there is sort of a curve to it which I think adds to the comfort. It doesn’t literally rest against my “belly,” it contacts the upper portion of my right hip bone.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 28 Aug 2020 10:53 am

Here you can clearly see the curvature.

Peter Jacobs · Post by **Peter Jacobs** » 28 Aug 2020 11:12 am

Mike Bacciarini wrote:I made my own belly bar from 5/8â€ rod covered in heat shrink. Put som metal inserts into the wood holes so they wouldnâ€™t loosen up. It does dig in a bit, but I set mine right above the belt and it feels secure. Sure is nice to be able to stand more than sit during a set.

Nice work, Mike! I'm curious - where does your right hand fall when you're wearing the strap? Do you put your arm through the strap, like with a Dobro, or over the strap?