| Visit Our Catalog at SteelGuitarShopper.com |

Post new topic Ridiculously Difficult Santo Lick - Canadian Sunset
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Reply to topic
Author Topic:  Ridiculously Difficult Santo Lick - Canadian Sunset
Jeremy DeHart


From:
North Carolina, USA
Post  Posted 17 Jul 2020 6:05 am    
Reply with quote

I'm sure it's not that difficult when you have the right strings/tuning, however I've been banging my head against a wall for a week trying to figure this out and I'm getting nowhere fast! A friend has suggested it's overdubbed, but to me it does not sound overdubbed. He also suggests it's in A6 as that was Santo's "Go to" neck for a lot of songs, however I'm hearing a distinct E13 cluster of notes. It actually sounds like he's doing some sort of hammer-on bar slam technique similar to what he did for the intro of Slave Girl. Does anyone know what's going on here for just the intro part? (This entire song is sped up a full note like the rest of the tunes on this album)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJznzg0gMCI

The thing that really amazes me when I contemplate it, this was released in 1959 by a then 22 yr old Santo. And if what I'm assuming is correct, this is way ahead of it's time and intensely creative. I mean the intro to Slave girl, while not nearly as difficult as this is also just amazing (all in A6).
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Mike Neer


From:
NJ
Post  Posted 17 Jul 2020 6:23 am    
Reply with quote

C6 high G string. Try that.
_________________
Buy Steelonious!
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

Garry Vanderlinde


From:
Southern California
Post  Posted 18 Jul 2020 4:06 pm     C6th
Reply with quote

Here's how I play the intro in C6th tuning. Your friend was probably right that it was originally in A6th as is Slave Girl. Santo did not play C6th.



Last edited by Garry Vanderlinde on 21 Jul 2020 11:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Garry Vanderlinde


From:
Southern California
Post  Posted 18 Jul 2020 8:22 pm     Re: C6th
Reply with quote

I do think the harmonics are overdubbed.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Jeremy DeHart


From:
North Carolina, USA
Post  Posted 20 Jul 2020 5:42 am    
Reply with quote

Very Helpful! Thanks so much Garry and Mike! C6 tuning for this is making more sense, but there's still some confusion for me with that note cluster. It's much closer in C6 however!
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Jeremy DeHart


From:
North Carolina, USA
Post  Posted 20 Jul 2020 5:55 am    
Reply with quote

I’m hearing something like this with these top 2 strings as pedal points/drone, then using a hammer-on style bar shove to get the high note maybe? When I listen to it very slow it sounds like he's changing one note to creat the highest note of the melody, and it sounds like a pedal almost.




I was not aware that Santo ever used C6, however it's not possible to get those 2 drone notes with the right intervals with the A6 tuning. The fret 12 stuff sounds about right, but the fret 15 stuff does not seem exactly right. It may be that now my ears are playing tricks on me.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Andy Volk


From:
Boston, MA
Post  Posted 20 Jul 2020 11:15 am    
Reply with quote

Hmmm. Doesn't sound like C6th to me. I quick grabbed a guitar and tried the McAuliffe version and it puts your opening lick on strings 1-4. I'm thinking it was actually one of these versions of E13th.


_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

Jeremy DeHart


From:
North Carolina, USA
Post  Posted 20 Jul 2020 11:30 am    
Reply with quote

That's what I was thinking Andy! I know Santo used the Boggs tuning in "Adventures in Paradise" (without the G# in the lower string) for that slowly strummed chord, however this tuning has a major 3rd on the top and those drone strings sound to me like a minor third. It's very confusing.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Mike Neer


From:
NJ
Post  Posted 20 Jul 2020 1:24 pm    
Reply with quote

You can clearly hear the E and C ringing and in the second chord the E rings until the Eb is hammered on at the 11th fret. I can recreate this, but I have an unorthodox theory as to how he did it. Will post soon.
_________________
Buy Steelonious!
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

Mike Neer


From:
NJ
Post  Posted 20 Jul 2020 5:10 pm    
Reply with quote

Tab:

E-------0----8~~~~~~~~----0---11~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
C-------0~~~~~~~~~~~~~----0~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A------12~~~~~~~~~~~~~-13~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
G--12~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~-------------------------------
E-------------------------------------------------------
C------------------------------------------------------


Red notes are hammer-ons I believe using a second bar in right hand or possible a ring to hammer the note.

I haven't had a chance to practice this, I'm simply going by what my ears are telling me is happening. There is no way that I can think of to achieve that intro without some kind of prestidigitation. Sorry this is real raw, but with practice I can get it down.
https://youtu.be/z2cHXo_abPk
_________________
Buy Steelonious!
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

Scott Thomas

 

Post  Posted 20 Jul 2020 7:30 pm    
Reply with quote

I think you nailed it, Mike. The add on hammer even has that metallic sound I hear in the original. Exactly the sound of a bar coming down to get that note. You always amaze.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Andy Volk


From:
Boston, MA
Post  Posted 21 Jul 2020 4:47 am    
Reply with quote

Excellent steel guitar forensics, Mike! You're ready for CSI: Steel Guitar Edition.
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

Jeremy DeHart


From:
North Carolina, USA
Post  Posted 21 Jul 2020 5:40 am    
Reply with quote

WOW! That's totally it Mike. That's the sound! Amazing!
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Graham Tichy

 

From:
New York, USA
Post  Posted 21 Jul 2020 7:48 am     A simpler answer...
Reply with quote

https://youtu.be/O5m5UNGofeg

I think that it’s much simpler. E13 tuning (Hi to Low E C# B G# E etc). Watch the video... It’s really easy to execute and sounds spot on to me. It also explains how Santo could play it in tune the whole time... In addition it explains solves the mystery of how he’d play the rest of the tune holding a bar in his right hand, which doesn’t seem realistic.

For the record, I was the guy who at first glance though it was A6 and overdubs. I should have spent a touch more time on it!
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Mike Neer


From:
NJ
Post  Posted 21 Jul 2020 7:56 am    
Reply with quote

Cool, that sounds right to me.

Well, if you need to play it in C6, at least now you know how. Lol
_________________
Buy Steelonious!
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

Andy Volk


From:
Boston, MA
Post  Posted 21 Jul 2020 9:02 am    
Reply with quote

Graham, I'm in awe of Mike's solution but I'm in your camp. I think the simplest explanation is usually the right one. E13th just makes more sense to me but I've been wrong before! Smile
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

Jeremy DeHart


From:
North Carolina, USA
Post  Posted 21 Jul 2020 9:03 am    
Reply with quote

Wow yeah this thread has utterly blown my mind. Thanks so much to everyone! Looks like Graham has got it. But Mike your solution is so creative! I think you might just usher in a new level of sophistication with this "dual bar" technique! Amazing!

One thing that I've learned about Santo in this is that this is actually the Leon E13 tuning for this, whereas the E13 tuning in Adventures is definitely the Bogg's tuning. So he had multiple tuning versions of his E13 apparently.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Nic Neufeld


From:
Kansas City, Missouri
Post  Posted 21 Jul 2020 9:15 am    
Reply with quote

I'm resisting the probably-offensive impulse to photoshop Santo as one of the multiple-armed deities of the Hindu faith, but that would certainly be an easy explanation for some of the magic I hear from these masters!
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Scott Thomas

 

Post  Posted 21 Jul 2020 9:26 am    
Reply with quote

Very cool! It's got to have that metallic sizzle of a bar touching an open vibrating string. You hear this sound sometimes in Western Swing styles.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Wally Pfeifer

 

From:
Illinois, USA
Post  Posted 21 Jul 2020 9:31 am     Santo & Johnny
Reply with quote

Smile By the way,-Jeremy,- have you listened to all 30+ of the S&J LPs?
Have a list of Japanese LPs featuring all Hawaiian music
that I can send you if you're interested. I think there is over 50,- maybe more.
Wally
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Jeremy DeHart


From:
North Carolina, USA
Post  Posted 21 Jul 2020 9:50 am    
Reply with quote

Nic - haha yes do it!

Hey Wally! I have listened to them all! And thank you so much. I’m only lacking a couple to make the complete set now! I’d love to check out the Japanese LPs as well. Thanks Wally!
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Wally Pfeifer

 

From:
Illinois, USA
Post  Posted 21 Jul 2020 11:04 am     Santo & Johnny
Reply with quote

Smile I'm glad you enjoyed them..I may have a couple more S&J if I ever have time to find them. My whole collection is not organized. I used to have my collection organized so if I wanted to listen, I could retrieve it in a few seconds.
Wally
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Wally Pfeifer

 

From:
Illinois, USA
Post  Posted 21 Jul 2020 11:09 am    
Reply with quote



Shocked Confused
See what I mean.
Wally
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Garry Vanderlinde


From:
Southern California
Post  Posted 21 Jul 2020 2:11 pm     C#m7
Reply with quote

Graham Tichy wrote:
https://youtu.be/O5m5UNGofeg

I think that it’s much simpler. E13 tuning (Hi to Low E C# B G# E etc). Watch the video... It’s really easy to execute and sounds spot on to me. It also explains how Santo could play it in tune the whole time... In addition it explains solves the mystery of how he’d play the rest of the tune holding a bar in his right hand, which doesn’t seem realistic.


That's a great discovery Graham, sounds right on. But it could be Santo's C#m7 tuning which has the same Ist four strings:
Hi to Low E C# B G# E C#. I couldn't find what he used on strings 7 & 8...anybody?
In a "Gutar Player" interview in the late 1980's ("Unsung Heroes" column), Santo says that he recorded "Sleepwalk" and "Teardrop" on the C#minor tuning and had A6th and E7th on the other necks.
I originally learned Sleepwalk in C6th and later switched it to C#m7 and it really sounds more authentic in C#m7. I'm going to have to relearn Canadian Sunset too.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Graham Tichy

 

From:
New York, USA
Post  Posted 22 Jul 2020 6:32 am     Re: C#m7
Reply with quote

Garry Vanderlinde wrote:
Graham Tichy wrote:
https://youtu.be/O5m5UNGofeg

I think that it’s much simpler. E13 tuning (Hi to Low E C# B G# E etc). Watch the video... It’s really easy to execute and sounds spot on to me. It also explains how Santo could play it in tune the whole time... In addition it explains solves the mystery of how he’d play the rest of the tune holding a bar in his right hand, which doesn’t seem realistic.


That's a great discovery Graham, sounds right on. But it could be Santo's C#m7 tuning which has the same Ist four strings:
Hi to Low E C# B G# E C#. I couldn't find what he used on strings 7 & 8...anybody?
In a "Gutar Player" interview in the late 1980's ("Unsung Heroes" column), Santo says that he recorded "Sleepwalk" and "Teardrop" on the C#minor tuning and had A6th and E7th on the other necks.
I originally learned Sleepwalk in C6th and later switched it to C#m7 and it really sounds more authentic in C#m7. I'm going to have to relearn Canadian Sunset too.


It certainly could be. I haven’t dug into the rest of the song yet. I merely said E13 to differentiate that it had a B on the 3rd string... The rest of the song and tuning is up for grabs.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail


All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Jump to:  
Please review our Forum Rules and Policies
Our Online Catalog
Strings, CDs, instruction, and steel guitar accessories
www.SteelGuitarShopper.com

The Steel Guitar Forum
148 S. Cloverdale Blvd.
Cloverdale, CA 95425 USA

Click Here to Send a Donation

Email SteelGuitarForum@gmail.com for technical support.


BIAB Styles
Ray Price Shuffles for Band-in-a-Box
by Jim Baron