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Topic: Steel guitar identity/long way around the barn? |
Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 13 Jul 2020 12:05 pm |
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I've never been good enough to sound like anybody else, so I've got that going for me...
Last edited by Dave Grafe on 14 Jul 2020 2:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 13 Jul 2020 3:35 pm
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| Jeff Peterson wrote: |
| I guess my playing style(?)..(makes me laugh!), if I have one is demonstrated on 'Killin' Time' album, or my personal favorite 'One Emotion' album. |
The title cut, One Emotion, immediately grabbed my ear when I first heard it years back. Definitely a distinguishable intro/turn/outro. It's not a big ride or anything, but very nice. If you haven't heard it, take a minute and give it a listen on youtube. |
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Joe Goldmark
From:
San Francisco, CA 94131
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Posted 13 Jul 2020 5:04 pm
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In case you guys didn't put two and two together, Jeff was Clint Black's steel man and actually played on Clint's hit albums. You can hear him at around the 3:00 minute mark on "Killin' Time" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAm4nHFOir0
To answer your post IMO, the main problem is that the pedals and tunings on commercial steel guitars are pretty much the same, and the instrument is kind of programmed to sound a certain way. It takes a very creative player to get outside that box. Also because the sound is so pleasing, most are happy to play the language of the instrument. C6 or similar 6th tunings will give a person more identity, but most of us don't play that tuning very often anymore. The exception being guys like Jeremy Wakefield, or AATW who play retro swing/rockabilly music.
That being said, Sneaky Pete certainly went in another direction, but nobody followed him. This is partly because he had a very unique tuning. But nobody really tried to use his phased sound either to get a different steel sound.
Another unique sound is the Sacred Steel sound of Chuck Campbell and Robert Randolph. They also have a unique tuning, and play a pretty exciting brand of steel, that doesn't sound like Nashville.
And finally there's the lap steel attack of David Lindley (Running On Empty), that Nashville eventually usurped. FWIW, Here's an exciting video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4bG-t5iUe0
Joe |
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Mike Holder
From:
Alabama! Home of the great “Don Helms” & his singer “Hank Williams”!
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Posted 13 Jul 2020 7:01 pm
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Joe; these players you just mentioned are all unique to their sound and tone and it defines them totally, the minute you hear them. All great examples of the topic of this post.....I guess it comes down to “ don’t be afraid to be different in your approach “.
_________________
I thought Nashville was the roughest, but I know I’ve said the same about them all.
I received my education, drivin through the Nation listenin to Paul!.. ( Franklin that is! ) |
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John Alexander
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Posted 13 Jul 2020 10:59 pm
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| Joe Goldmark wrote: |
| [T]he main problem is that the pedals and tunings on commercial steel guitars are pretty much the same, and the instrument is kind of programmed to sound a certain way. It takes a very creative player to get outside that box. Also because the sound is so pleasing, most are happy to play the language of the instrument. (Snipped) |
Very bright comment, in my opinion. |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 14 Jul 2020 2:36 pm
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| Joe Goldmark wrote: |
| ... and the instrument is kind of programmed to sound a certain way. It takes a very creative player to get outside that box. Also because the sound is so pleasing, most are happy to play the language of the instrument. |
Working with the instrument instead of against it. You can look down on a person for being unoriginal, but you can't look down on them for finding what the instrument does well and focusing on that. There's a saying by a designer about creativity being taking something original and changing it by 3%. Coincidentally, he has been accused of shamelessly ripping off other people's designs. |
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Chris Brooks
From:
Providence, Rhode Island
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Posted 17 Jul 2020 8:33 am
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People say they have never heard anyone play the steel the way I do . . .
That's a compliment, isn't it? |
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Gary Newcomb
From:
AustinTexas, USA
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Posted 17 Jul 2020 2:12 pm
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Loving this thread y’all- great discussion. I fall in the camp of those having an undisciplined approach to learning. When I began playing I was put off by the notion that so many players I heard sounded mostly the same. Or were only drawing from what seemed like the same vernacular of phrasing and stringing together similar licks. For sure some were MUCH better at it than others though. On the flip side of this a lot of the non- traditional players sounded pitchy, redundant and so dependent on pedal boards to get their point across.
During this period of lockdown, I’ve enjoyed having the time to actually learn things instead of noodling for hours and hours like I normally do. I even took my first ever lesson via FaceTime from the great James Shelton. James gave me a lot of exercises for incorporating more palm blocking into my 3-picks vibe!
_________________
Sierra Session U12, Milkman 1/2, Goodrich Omni, Divine Noise Cables, BJS, Solid cosmic gold, baby 👶🻠|
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Bob Watson
From:
Champaign, Illinois, U.S.
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Posted 17 Jul 2020 5:21 pm
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| Jeff, this is a great post. I'll never forget going to my first pedal steel convention in St. Louis. It was the 3d one which was held in St. Charles MO., and I had owned my first pedal steel for about 8 months. All of the greats were there, Speedy West, Herbie Remington, Jimmy Day, Curly Chalker, Buddy Emmons, Maurice Anderson, Doug Jernigan, and more, and they all had their own style. They all had different tunings, tone, technique, etc., and they all sounded great. Jerry Byrd was there too, and he was amazing. IMHO, learning how to play in time and in tune is the most important thing a beginner can learn how to do. Learning music theory is important and of course, it's really good to learn record licks, but like J.D. Maness said, you should also learn how to make them your own. Jeff, every note you played on the "Killin Time" album was great. I especially enjoyed learning the intro to "Nothing's News". Playing pedal steel is a life long journey and I hope more players see this post and learn from the wisdom that some of the great steel players on this forum have shared with us. |
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Steve Allison
From:
Eatonton,Ga. U.S.A.
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Posted 17 Jul 2020 10:32 pm
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| I think first you need to have a song that lends itself to the steel guitar......you know,like it used to be! Western swing lent itself to the c6th and Honky tonkers lent it to the E9th. There are very few songs today that hold key changes long enough to answer the singer back like pretty melodies used to do. Just can't fit the old steel in to Sweet Home Alabama chord progressions and Bass and Drums shaking the walls in the clubs! Most of us didn't start out for it to wind up like it is now. This covid thing may let some of these sport bar and biker clubs fall by the wayside and let us have places to play where we actually don't feel like musical prostitutes. Sorta like a decent fresh start! |
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Kevin Fix
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 18 Jul 2020 5:14 am
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| 40 years here. I do my own thing for sure, but, learning how some of greats played what they did pushed me into my own direction and style. No tab player here. Played by ear. |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 18 Jul 2020 6:57 am
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| Joe Goldmark wrote: |
| ...and the instrument is kind of programmed to sound a certain way. It takes a very creative player to get outside that box. Also because the sound is so pleasing, most are happy to play the language of the instrument. |
Agreed. I love playing on the bandstand and learning hit songs the way they were recorded is satisfying for me. Our band is made up of like-minded individuals, who all have day jobs. We only play private parties and fund raising events for non-profits. We try to learn the songs the way they were recorded...no extended songs or multiple leads. Play the song and move on to the next one and keep the dancers on the dance floor. We would rather concentrate on harmonies, playing in tune, singing in tune, dynamics, etc. than trying to get creative. I don't have the creative talent to try to improve what was provided by the studio musicians.
| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
Jeff,
I agree with you.
With some pedal steel players, all they want to do is copy somebody else's licks.
It's no wonder they all sound alike.
If you asked them to play a complete song, they couldn't. 
Erv |
I guess by "complete song" you are referring to an instrumental. I have no desire to learn or play instrumentals. I've been playing in bands since the early 1970s and have never played with one that did instrumentals. Play what people hear on the radio and keep them on the dance floor. I'm happy with that. |
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Tom Cooper
From:
Orlando, Fl
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Posted 18 Jul 2020 8:31 am Steel identity
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| Indeed interesting. For me I play mostly E13 lap steel so when I go to play pedal steel it's from that world. I love old swing and opry blocking styles. Add Sneaky Pete mentality, Buddy Cage and some Sacred Steel influence and I hope I am doing something kinda cool. I am not really playing for steel players tho, playing for local patrons who hardly get to see or hear a steel. But yeah, don't want to be too cliche but then for certain gigs that actually works. Just try to grab for something that is musical and cool, feel lyrics and vibe of song and go with that indstead of pat worked out licks. Yeah I use some of the old standard licks but try to force myself to go somewhere else with them or take a turn or twist. Non pedal world is my main thing so I try to bring some of that mentality like moving, picking up bar, single note runs, and such to try and get out of rut. |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 7 Aug 2020 3:52 am
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Joe's comment, "Also because the sound is so pleasing, most are happy to play the language of the instrument", is spot on IMO.
Once in a while I find myself going overboard trying to "sound like a horn player", "sound Like a banjo player", "sound like a fiddle player", etc. It's a great exercise and benefits your ability to play something in any musical situation but, I have to remind myself that what makes PSG different is its' ability to join notes harmonies and phrases seamlessly. Damn if we don't play one of the only instruments that is both polyphonic and can play in between notes with infinite resolution. Speaking of resolution (second meaning): the resolution of dissonance - Take Hughey's intro on Vince's "Look At Us". The intro over a 1 2 5 progression. The band comes in on a 2 chord, meanwhile Hughey is playing 2/3 (dissonant) duad, strings 2 and 3, pedal C pressed, but he lets of the pedal and resolves it to 1 and 3 and we all go.... ahhhhhh. These are the things that make our instrument special.
Ok, I didn't come up with that lick but it's certainly worth repeating. |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 7 Aug 2020 5:21 am
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Jeff Peterson"Right On!
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 7 Aug 2020 6:59 am
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| Dave Grafe wrote: |
| I've never been good enough to sound like anybody else, so I've got that going for me... |
lol ... I hear you , same here ... but hey, as long as you have fun , that’s all
It matters, at least to me ...
_________________
https://steelguitarsonline.com/ |
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Jeff Peterson
From:
Nashville, TN USA
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Posted 7 Aug 2020 11:25 am
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This is cool for me to hear all the different opinions expressed here. 'Fun' is a interesting thing playing...I remember having a total blast when I started playing, and then, pressure and the learning, time thing kinda' took over for awhile, then the 'fun' thing again. I'm sure we've all gone through it at some level...It stops being fun when every note you play is examined, inspected, rotoscoped-tilled and evaluated for its relevances with what someone else expects from a track...This is what make the Paul Franklins and Tommy Whites of this endeavor so dang exceptional. I remember on the Killin' Time album recording dates, when the room mic was on, James Stroud asking Lynn Peterzel(God rest his soul..what a great guy), does this guy know how much he could make in the studios in Nashville? He was referring to me, but I couldn't give 2 shakes for that then...I was into making the songs I was doing right then the best I could. After all the initial confusion, excitement, shock, and elation had subsided, we hit the road....and the fun happened again! My whole life as a player, was about having as much fun playing as I could..all of it..the crowds, the venues(from Carnegie Hall to the White House to the Tonight Show to Letterman, etc., to my first trip the Rendezvous in Memphis with Billy Gibbons.(The BEST ribs anywhere!)
Long story short, if you're having FUN playing, for God's sake don't change anything you're doing. I would still rather be having fun than kowtowing to the head of RCA, and other powers that be that have their own idea about how you need to look, act, play, your creative input and all that makes a band a band.
I apologize if I went off the having fun idea, but, fun is fun...and work is work. |
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