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Topic: Old MV Fender amp question |
Eric Philippsen
From:
Central Indiana, USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2020 12:51 pm |
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Ok, I’ve owned a lot of master-volume Fender amps from the 70’s. Yes, I prefer the earlier, non-mv models but so many of the later MV ones were available at stupid-low prices that I couldn’t turn them down.
Here’s what I don’t understand. I’d plug into an MV model, turn the master up to 10, forget about it, and do all my volume adjustments with the “regular†or first volume knob. Voila! Without exception, no matter the model, it would sound great with none of the design problems of using the MV knob.
So I’ve often thought, “What’s the big deal with a silver-faced MV model? Just turn it to 10 and go from there.â€
Comments? Thoughts? |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2020 1:01 pm
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| My Master volume Twins have a boost function when it's pulled out. Not sure if they all were designed like that. And like you, never use it. Max it and forget it. The boost sounds crappy to me. |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 15 Jun 2020 1:23 pm
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It's almost an urban legend when you hear things like the MV on a Fender Twin is no good or true bypass is better than buffered, etc.
If it sounds good it is good.
_________________
I survived the sixties! |
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Dave Meis
From:
Olympic Peninsula, Washington, USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2020 1:24 pm
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| +1 I have a 135.. best steel amp I ever had! |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2020 6:10 pm
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| Dave, I have a 135 with JBLs. Heavy as a tank. Also have an 85 watt with master volume, one EV and an Eminence 12. Still a wicked amp. I picked up the Tonemaster Twin and I'm yet to fall in love with it. |
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Dave Meis
From:
Olympic Peninsula, Washington, USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2020 7:26 pm
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| I love having the MV! I can dime it on a gig and attenuate the speaker for practice. Very versatile. Heavy? Why, yes, it is! 🤪. Does anyone ’out front’ notice? Why, no, probably not. But I do. Ext. speaker out? Check. Line out? Check. I have Fender BF amps as well, but no mid control makes them ‘less than‘ for ME. I know people love what they use, and I’m ONE of those people! SF Fenders! |
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 15 Jun 2020 9:41 pm Re: Old MV Fender amp question
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| Eric Philippsen wrote: |
| Ok, I’ve owned a lot of master-volume Fender amps from the 70’s. Yes, I prefer the earlier, non-mv models but so many of the later MV ones were available at stupid-low prices that I couldn’t turn them down....... “What’s the big deal with a silver-faced MV model? Just turn it to 10 and go from there.†|
I think that's EXACTLY why those Fender amps are such a [comparable] bargain in these days of over-inflated "vintage" prices!
_________________
Emmons & Peavey |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 16 Jun 2020 12:54 am
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Urban myth . The real question for Fender about about adding a MV is it actually didn't do anything other than adjust the output volume, as opposed to amps that were designed to offer GAIN staging ( OD GRIT) when the PREAMP was on 10 and using the MV to control overall gain. Fender adding the MV to the earlier SF series ( post 71) was just a competitive "knob" , "We have a MV too" ! Just like magically , with NO ACTIVE circuit change or Transformer change , 85 watts became 100 watts ! In the LEO days the rating was understood to be based on 110/115 VAC. The later SF 100 watt series most likely were rated at 125 VAC as the Transformer Specs were capable. There is your 15 wattage increase. New calculation. SPEC war.
When the 135 Ultra Linears came out that was an a updated circuit. I believe thats when the PULL BOOST began.
These are all still great amps as long as you don't mind 70 pounds !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Michael Brebes
From:
Northridge CA
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Posted 16 Jun 2020 6:41 am
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
| Urban myth . The real question for Fender about about adding a MV is it actually didn't do anything other than adjust the output volume, |
I wish that was true, but they put that pesky little capacitor between the wiper and the top lead of the potentiometer, which turns it into a "Bright" circuit which you couldn't turn off. The further down the volume the more high frequencies bled through that cap. That's why every one I've owned and repaired gets that capacitor snipped off.
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Michael Brebes
Instrument/amp/ pickup repair
MSA D10 Classic/Rickenbacher B6/
Dickerson MOTS/Dobro D32 Hawaiian/
Goldtone Paul Beard Reso
Mesa Boogie Studio Pre/Hafler 3000
RP1/MPX100 |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 16 Jun 2020 8:10 am
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I just flat-out prefer blackface and earlier non-MV silverface Twin Reverbs - there is a difference. My biggest issue with the later 70s and early 80s "blackface" amps is construction technique. Dadoed baffles from, what, '71 or '72 onward, different wire and lead dress, speakers, move to an ultralinear design in '77 or so, and so on. To me, it just goes with what Fender was doing to their guitars in the late 70s. But the earlier MV models are still very good amps and can be brought to earlier specs without too much trouble.
I think ultralinear Twins are a pretty different amp - I don't generally think it's worth it to try to convert one back to blackface/early-silverface specs. But I agree they make great clean machines - and I think they sound good, but different than the earlier models. Even into the 80s with the Rivera-designed stuff like the Concert, they're still good, hand-wired amps. I have a 1x12" Concert that I picked up reasonable in Nashville that I plunked a 7.7 lb 300 or so Watt Furlong 12" pedal steel speaker in, and it sounds great for steel or jazz guitar. With that speaker, it's about the same weight as my Vibrolux Reverbs, but more loud/clean for steel.
Ultralinear Twins definitely do tend to go cheap. I've seen them for $400-500 pretty routinely over the last 10-15 years. And I think that the pandemic crisis we're in may tend to suppress prices even further. I'm not sure we're seeing the effect so far, since the supply chain for new stuff has been broken for the last few months. But if the economy doesn't start to rebound pretty soon, I think a lot of people will take stock of what has happened, including the chilling effect this is continuing to have on the music scene. If that happens, it's hard to see how there won't be a depressing impact on musical equipment demand. But, if economies take off again and we move a lot of production back from offshore, the effect could be quite the opposite. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 16 Jun 2020 9:49 am
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| Michael Brebes wrote: |
| Tony Prior wrote: |
| Urban myth . The real question for Fender about about adding a MV is it actually didn't do anything other than adjust the output volume, |
I wish that was true, but they put that pesky little capacitor between the wiper and the top lead of the potentiometer, which turns it into a "Bright" circuit which you couldn't turn off. The further down the volume the more high frequencies bled through that cap. That's why every one I've owned and repaired gets that capacitor snipped off. |
while I do not disagree, the understood purpose of MV amps was to allow the front end to overdrive the back end. Fender amps , at that time, from the early to late 70's , didn't do that. Thats what I am referring to. In the early 80's, indeed they gave it a good try with the Rivera era designs. I had a couple of those , they were nice, but they didn't sound like early Fender amps to me ! Something was missing. During that period I went back to early 70's Twins. Nothing was missing ! 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Patrick Fleming
From:
South Dakota, USA
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Posted 16 Jun 2020 4:26 pm
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| I currently have a 70 non master and a 74 master with the push/ pull volume and just recently got rid of t 72 MV with out the push pull volume. That are all awesome but they are not the same. Without a mod I don't think that you can just twist some knobs and make one sound like the other. The master has a bit of dirt that is never 100% gone and the non master never gets. |
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