Weissenborn versus Resonator Dilemma

Rick Abbott · From: Indiana, USA

I have a Flinthill square neck "dobro" that I upgraded with pro-quality guts and did a decent setup on. It's a pretty nice guitar, at least it's acceptable to me.

I also have a Lazy River "weissenborn" that Rance made for me custom a few years ago. Very nice guitar with plain sawn Koa dried for 40 years. It really sounds great. I fell in love with the sound of folks playing weissenborn and bought one. I'm not convinced it's for me.

Over time I decided I don't want to play the LR in D tuning. I really don't like low-bass G tuning either. So, I put on a set of EJ42 (I think that's the one) D'Addario strings, as they are pretty light tension, and tuned up to standard GBDGBD. It sounds a bit "choked" and has too little string tension for my taste.

I guess I have realized that I like harder tension on my strings. Pedal strings are fairly hard, and dobro is pretty hard, too.

Is there any way to get to a harder string tension on the weiss, or do I just need to move on to another resonator, like a open body style, or even sound hole, non-resonator slide guitar? Can acoustic non resos take the high tension?

Anyone have an interesting straight trade; my Lazy River for your ($1000-$1500) resonator or acoustic slide able to take 18-56 string sets, or therabouts. That is, if there isn't an option for me to keep the LR.

A lot of questions, I realize. Maybe no perfect answers, but I thought I'd put it all out there and see what shakes out. Thanks for any thoughts or ideas.
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RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Wakarusa 5e3 clone
1953 Stromberg-Carlson AU-35

Mark Eaton · Posted 4 May 2020 5:46 pm

Rick, what is the scale on the Lazy River? Out of curiosity I went to Rance's website and unless I missed it I came up empty. I did find in a store listing one that had been for sale and it showed 24.9 inches.

That's 1/10 inch short of the typical dobro. If you don't think D'Addario EJ-42s are are tight enough in GBDGBD, it makes me wonder if you have a short scale Lazy River.

If it's 24.9" I'm thinking Rance would wince if he read this and saw that you are using 16-56 strings. Just seems like it's asking for trouble. It strikes me as odd if that's the scale that it plays "soft." There is plenty of tension in high bass G tuning on the typical 25" scale dobro.

One can get a hot rodded Flinthill to sound decent, but compared to a quality modern squareneck reso I can't imagine in an A/B test it would fare all that well.

When they play acoustic lap style, there are a few well-known players who prefer weissies as their main guitars as opposed to squareneck resos. David Lindley, Ben Harper, and Ed Gerhard come to mind.

It's a great sound - but I can't imagine it being my main sound. For myself, to use a baseball analogy (I sure miss baseball!), the weissenborn is like a specialty middle relief pitcher you bring in for one to two innings. A valuable member of the team, but not a starting pitcher.
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Mark

Rick Abbott · From: Indiana, USA

Mark, It is 24.9 scale. I have only had that tuning on for 3 days, and, I've detuned the low three before putting it away. I know Rance would not approve, haha.

I've been using Beard special 28's 17-56, not .018 like I mentioned above on the FH. .

I don't like the ej42 set on the FH, I used them for a year or so. Before that I used the old ghs Jerry Douglas nickle wound sets. I really like the Beard sets for whatever reason.

I agree the Flinthill is a second class instrument, believe me, I want a real guitar. Been looking in the 1-2k range for best bang for the buck. My hope is to find a solution, either find a way to use the LR more, or find a trade. I have limited cash. The FH is working for now.

This was probably an ill fated adventure. I'm not even a hundred percent sure what I'm trying to achieve by this post.
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Wakarusa 5e3 clone
1953 Stromberg-Carlson AU-35

Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

I avoid heavier than standard dobro strings on the Weissenborn - the Weiss is more fragile, and I'd wonder about long-term life with heavier strings.

Also, the Weiss seemed to ring out better with lighter strings - heavy strings made it "thud" and not sustain - it seems to like the vibration of lighter strings.
I ended up with a D'Addario EXP42 base set, modded to 16-18-(26)-35-(39)-45.
the 26 and 39 were added, and the 45 moved to the 6th position.

You might try lighter strings just to see how it sounds...a Weiss isn't a dobro, which benefits from really digging in...a 17 or 18 for the first string was really noticeably thuddy - more obvious when compared with the lighter string - I tried it with different gauges for the first two strings, both tuned to D ..

Of course, my Weiss might be different than yours - it is a custom copy of a late-20s Weiss...made of black acacia with a 1,200 year-old Douglas fir top...
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www.facebook.com/swingaliband & a few more....
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor

Brad Davis · From: Texas, USA

It seems to generally be true that people trying to make a dobro out of a Weissenborn never come away too satisfied. Most of these type guitars only really respond well and get "that sound" with D or low G tuning. There are string sets that allow you to do high G, or modern guitars that can withstand it, but it's almost never going to be optimal for the instrument, or fill in well for an actual dobro.

I think for most people a good squareneck resonator is what they are going to need first and foremost, and a Weissy only as an alternate guitar for some different styles on the side in its natural tunings. After giving it more of a chance and experiencing other tunings I've found I can do a lot more than I used to on a Weissenborn in D tuning, but I probably would never want it as my main guitar, and it would do very poorly in a jam without amplification.

In the $1k-$2k range you have some nice reso options, particularly Gold Tone Beard PBS-D and PBS-M and the Deco-Phonic models, as well as some newer offerings from Recording King.

Rick Abbott · From: Indiana, USA

Yeah, I sure get that it's never gonna be a dobro. In some way, I guess I'm looking for a "different sound" than my resonator, but with similar play-ability. I like the sound of the Lazy River, but don't like the "normal" tunings, or don't want to learn another set of fretboard positions. E9, C6, G6-6, 7 and 10st, G-dobro, standard guitar: enough tunings

This is a helpful conversation. I'm starting to actually think this through. The things I'm sure of:

I don't want to use D or Low bass G tunings.
A weissenborn isn't and can't be a dobro.
My Flinthill has a decent "traditional soundwell" tone.
I probably need to find a modern style reso to explore.
Maybe try G6 on the LR, B-D-E-G-B-D? As it won't clash with my G6-7st grips. if I can make a set that had the same tension as the low bass G tuning.
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Wakarusa 5e3 clone
1953 Stromberg-Carlson AU-35

Brad Davis · From: Texas, USA

G6 might be an idea, there probably aren't many reports of how well it works so you'd just have to try it. Also I'm not sure if more of a kona style guitar (no hollow neck) might work better in standard G, but seems to me it would have the same problem with the light bracing and potential damage to the top and/or choked response. Nothing says you can't just raise the nut on a more substantial acoustic guitar if the sound makes you happy. Or possibly you need to try a squareneck tri-cone or biscuit cone guitar?

Robert Murphy · From: West Virginia

I have a 1996 Dobro 6 with Paul Beard setup and good original hard case to trade. The acoustic steels I play would need to be mic-ed to get near the volume of this Dobro.

Jim Bates · From: Alvin, Texas, USA

I have a Weissenborn made for John Pearse by Italia instruments in Italy. It is a very light guitar with a great full sound. I keep it in F tuning (2 frets lower than G tuning using the same G tuning string set.) Keeps tension lower, and give great baritone sound.

Play it a with light touch. Enjoy.

Thanx,
Jim
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Jim Bates, Alvin, Texas
Emmons LeGrand,Sho-Bud Super Pro, SB ProII - E13th,C6th on all. Many Resonator guitars

Larry Allen · From: Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii

Several of Pearseâ€™s Italians ended up in Alaska in the mid-90â€™s, where they litterly all came apart..I bid on a half dozen and rebuilt them.Hereâ€™s the one I kept..Ebony fingerboard, abolone trim, 7 strings, E6 tuning..qwik change to Eb11..

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Excel steels & Peavey amps,Old Chevys & Motorcycles & Women on the Trashy Side

Martin Lindsay · From: Brevard, NC

Hi,

Hey! I have just the opposite dilemma and am gravitating away from spider bridge reosphonic, toward biscuit and pure acoustic - more blues, less bluegrass, I guess.

While living in the UK, I bought one of the last deluxe Lebeda dobros that Jiri L produced before he closed shop in â€˜06 in the Czech Republic. Itâ€™s a pretty rare reso. The overall design follows an original 1920â€™s design, but with key changes in line with top-of-the line resonator guitars built today. This JL632 model features solid mahogany top, sides, and back and uses open-well sound post design in the style of Scheerhorn and other premium makers. The cone was hand spun by Lebeda.

Lebeda was known to use some of the finest tonewoods available. All his resos are voiced to provide optimal volume and dynamics, emphasizing rich mid and bass tones complemented with sweet, harmonically-rich treble up the neck.

Deep OM-style body shape with hand-spun cone
Spider bridge w maple inserts
Solid mahogany top, back and sides with aged 3-ply Ivoroid binding
Mahogany squareneck
Ebony peghead overlay featuring abalone flowerpot & Lebeda logo inlays
Bound ebony fingerboard covering 19 frets featuring abalone dot inlays
Grover tuning machines (upgrades from orig tuners)
Original hardshell case

I couldnâ€™t consider a straight-across trade as the trade value of the Lebeda is in the $2k range +/-,, but Iâ€™ll be happy to send photos if youâ€™re interested. Perhaps can work out a cash+trade deal.

Brance White is not far from me here in NC, and I really like the koa Style 1 he has (unadorned, vintage look,solid construction). Iâ€™d love to see photos of the LR Weissenborn build he made for you.

Best regards,
Martin Lindsay
(828) 556-9085
Musicalmd@gmx.com

Mark Mansueto · From: Michigan, USA

I had a LR a while back. beautiful guitar and Lance was easy to work with. I ended up selling it mainly because I thought it seemed a bit fragile and I was able to get great results by converting a standard 12 string acoustic to lap steel. The 12 string is built heavier than a 6 so I'm not worried about any tuning and the 12 neck is wider than a 6. I also prefer the tone of the larger body and I was able to pocket a thousand bucks. Was a no-brainer for me.

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