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Author Topic:  String 1 and 2 raise
Cody Coombs


From:
Washington, USA
Post  Posted 27 Apr 2020 9:30 pm    
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Than you all for your advice and for your help , I have been fortunate enough to read through all these and get plenty of information to help with choosing to go for that change . I have decided it might be good to throw the 7th string raise in with that same movement , so I have a return spring (not sure if that's necessary or not) and another pull rod set coming in the mail one of these days so I'm excited . I only ordered 1 return spring I believe so I may have to either order another for the 2nd string raise , or is it possible can I find a spring at a hardware store that will work the same ? Not sure if they're built to a certain tension and thickness and whatnot .

Thanks again for all your Steelin wisdom !

Cody Coombs
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Cody Coombs


From:
Washington, USA
Post  Posted 27 Apr 2020 10:04 pm    
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These are the springs I mentioned . I would imagine I can get them from a hardware store?
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Greg Cutshaw


From:
Corry, PA, USA
Post  Posted 28 Apr 2020 4:17 am    
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One other thought involves raising the 6th string G# to B. If you go with that change now or in the future, it's good to have them on opposite knees.

Raising the 7th string F# to G# (3rd scale tone) and the 6th string G# to B (5th scale tone) and then the 5th string B to C# (6th scale tone) can be quite useful. In order bottom to top, strings 8 to 4, this gives you a R, 3, 5, 6, R scale and you can add the 7th note on string 9 if you want a full sounding 13th chord.
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Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 28 Apr 2020 6:44 am     Springs
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Chances of finding those exact springs with the same tension at your local hardware store are probably not good. Believe it or not, there is an online spring store.
https://www.thespringstore.com/buy-compression-springs-online.html
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Cody Coombs


From:
Washington, USA
Post  Posted 28 Apr 2020 6:50 am    
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Are those springs necessary for a raise ? I imagine it would help bring it back to the starting note
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Brian Hollands


From:
Geneva, FL USA
Post  Posted 28 Apr 2020 6:54 am    
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No. I don't have any of those springs on my LDG. Not a one...
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Cody Coombs


From:
Washington, USA
Post  Posted 28 Apr 2020 6:57 am    
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Greg - would that raise on the 6th string be good on a vertical lever ?
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Cody Coombs


From:
Washington, USA
Post  Posted 28 Apr 2020 7:01 am    
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Brian - hmm I wonder what they might be for , to my
Knowledge they're only on the strings that have a raise
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Greg Cutshaw


From:
Corry, PA, USA
Post  Posted 28 Apr 2020 7:40 am    
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Cody, I work at a spring factory lol! The only change that works well for me on a vertical is the 5th string B to Bb change. YMMV!
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Cody Coombs


From:
Washington, USA
Post  Posted 28 Apr 2020 11:49 am    
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Greg - it must be your busiest season at the factory.... spring ! Heheheh
That B to Bb change sounds like there's a lot of variety with what can be done with it I think after I accomplish these raises I might have to try my luck at throwing a vertical lever with that on it .

Thank you for your advice , I think I've gathered all of the information I need to make these changes , sounds like the "helper / raise springs " aren't necessary , they are helpful depending on the setup though . I contacted Mullen Steel Guitars and asked the questions and they were super helpful with making it clear what I needed and how to get the job done Very Happy looking forward to adding these to my Steel thanks everyone

Cody Coombs
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Cody Coombs


From:
Washington, USA
Post  Posted 28 Apr 2020 6:57 pm     Success !!!
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I just wanted to let all you fellas know that I got the 1st and 2nd string raise all fixed up and it's awesome ! Waiting on the new pull rod assembly in the mail so I can throw the 7th string raise on there too . It was so much easier than I anticipated thanks to all your help everyone ! I'm having too much fun playing with these new raises thanks everybody !
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Ian Rae


From:
Redditch, England
Post  Posted 28 Apr 2020 10:02 pm    
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On my first (pull-release) guitar I couldn't lower 6 so to get that movement (it's all about movement) I raised 7 instead.

Now that I can lower 6 I'm tempted to add that string 7 raise to the same lever so that the two notes change places. Anyone done that?
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Greg Cutshaw


From:
Corry, PA, USA
Post  Posted 29 Apr 2020 4:01 am    
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I have thought about adding the 6th string lower and the 7th string raise to opposite sides of the same bell crank on the same knee lever. Then just move the nylon tuners in and out as needed to activate one change or the other. Of course the 6th string lower is still not compatible with the 1st string raise.
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Cody Coombs


From:
Washington, USA
Post  Posted 29 Apr 2020 6:44 am    
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Would it be a waste to have the 6th lower on its own lever ? ( ex. RKL 2? ) so you could just fold it up when not in use ?
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Jerry Overstreet


From:
Louisville Ky
Post  Posted 29 Apr 2020 7:04 am    
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Cody Coombs wrote:
Would it be a waste to have the 6th lower on its own lever ? ( ex. RKL 2? ) so you could just fold it up when not in use ?


Certainly not a waste. I use the 6 lower with the half-tone split a lot for that 7th tone. Wouldn't want to do without it.

The nice thing about modern guitars with Universal changers is that you can put just about anything you want on there.

Most of us try to emulate the things we hear on records, so those changes seem to be the most popular, but you can go your own way and do about anything you want. It just depends on what you want your guitar to say for you.

On most guitars you can have as many as 10 levers and 10 pedals, but keep in mind that more hardware means more weight and more maintenance, but it's up to the individual owner.
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Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 29 Apr 2020 7:54 am    
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Cody, could you post the setup you have implemented? I’ve been following along trying to keep track of all the suggestions, which have been interesting, but I’m a little lost.

Also, I wonder how many players put the 1-2-7 raise on a right knee lever. It’s kind of a stiff change, and I would think volume pedal control might be difficult with it there instead of on the left.
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Cody Coombs


From:
Washington, USA
Post  Posted 29 Apr 2020 8:34 am    
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Fred - Of course , when I get home I'll take a picture of the underside , but for now all I did was take the 6 string lower rod (left the bell crank where it was incase I want to switch back ) and shifted it over to the second string and put it the same bell crank as the first string facing in the opposite direction as the first string rod , different bell crank holes but same changer holes for each string to get the half and whole notes . Now when I get the new rod set I should be able to just pop it in to do the seventh string. The part that scared me the most ( on account of I never did anything major to my Steel yet ) was the set screw that gives the lever travel ,but being cautious and paying attention and taking notes the whole time I was able to get all the notes in line where they needed to be . Was a fun experience now I feel more comfortable if I ever needed to do something under there . I hope all that makes sense lol . And you are right it is a little stiffer and a farther lever distance, but I think practicing with it I won't tell the difference eventually . I have read somewhere along the way that some people Use that even on they're left vertical , but I feel that would make getting the pedaling with A and B harder , I could be wrong .

Jerry - that's very true , I do like the 6th string lower , I don't know if there's much I know how to do with it yet , but a few cool chordal stuff and some licks with it I wouldn't want to go without for long , I had considered adding another knee lever that's able to get out of the way when I don't need it , only if it's practical to do it that way . And Gregs idea about backing the nylon nut off seems to be a very clever way to get both and how easy it would be to go between the two .
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Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 29 Apr 2020 9:02 am    
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Thanks, Cody. You don’t need to post a pic. Clear as mud Winking

I agree with your assessment of having the 1-2-7 raise on the vertical - works well if you only use it in conjunction with a pedal, like AB. If you wanted to use it by itself, you might be lifting your steel half a foot off the floor before engaging it fully. I have the G raises on my vertical and it’s a bear to use without a foot on a pedal holding everything on terra firma. The B-Bb lower would probably be much easier. I’m thinking I could do G raises by doing a half-lever thing on the 1-2-7 raise (my LKR), and use the vertical for something else. I have an S12 4+5, and don’t really want to add any more hardware.

Sorry for sidetripping the discussion from your project, but I’ve been trying to relate it to changes I have made recently.
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Larry Allen


From:
Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii
Post  Posted 29 Apr 2020 4:12 pm    
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I raise 1,2 & 7 with pedal 4..total Maj chord Very Happy
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Cody Coombs


From:
Washington, USA
Post  Posted 1 May 2020 6:16 pm    
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Fred - here is a picture of how I have it set up on the same bell crank ( both are on the 3rd hole from the top o the steel on the changer )





To anyone who may have advice - I noticed these two are touching , Is there some sort of real thin felt piece I could put in between to keep them from rubbing too much or is that okay how it is ?






Now here’s Just a thought I had , more so out of curiosity than anything . It’s about Those spacers by the nylon nut , if you were ever in a situation and just couldn’t tune your string that last stretch , without changing the lever or pedal travel with the set screw or whatever you would need to do - could you just shave a little off the spacer ? Also would that shorten or lengthen your movement without doing anything to the actual pedal or lever ? It might be a silly question and I know there’s a reason you shouldn’t I just don’t know what that would be . I’m not in a situation I would need to do that , just curious once I looked at them hmmm Very Happy

Anyways I hope you all are well , I got my new rod setup for my 7th string raise I’m about to put on , excited for the new possibilities I can make with it .

Thanks for all your help and support ,

Cody Coombs
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Larry Allen


From:
Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii
Post  Posted 1 May 2020 6:30 pm    
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When I have rods rubbing I QTip a dab of white there... Shocked
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Cody Coombs


From:
Washington, USA
Post  Posted 1 May 2020 7:50 pm    
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Larry - what is “white” ?
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Larry Allen


From:
Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii
Post  Posted 1 May 2020 8:02 pm    
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Automotive ..several brands, here’s one
Shocked
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Cody Coombs


From:
Washington, USA
Post  Posted 1 May 2020 11:01 pm    
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Oh okay that’s perfect thanks , do you have to routinely apply to the rods ?
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Greg Cutshaw


From:
Corry, PA, USA
Post  Posted 2 May 2020 7:03 am    
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If two rods are rubbing I would do whatever's needed to separate them. Slightly move pull cranks on the cross-shaft, put a bend or two in the pull rods, move the pull rod to a new hole in the crank or changer. You need to actuate the pedal also and see if the rubbing gets tighter or looser as the chaffing may increase or actually decrease as the pull is activated.
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