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Post new topic Crazy idea?... SD-10 back to D-10
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Author Topic:  Crazy idea?... SD-10 back to D-10
Mike DiAlesandro


From:
Kent, Ohio
Post  Posted 6 Apr 2020 4:32 am    
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Understandably, many of us get upset when a nice older D-10 gets stripped down and turned into a SD-10.

I personally have done this one time, and now regret my decision.

So, here is a story with a different, yet somewhat unconventional ending. A Sho~Bud Pro III that had been chopped down to a SD-10, bought by me, and returned to a fully functional D-10.

The only hitch here is that, the C6th neck is built from Emmons p/p parts from a parts SD-10 that I found.

Here it is...

Original




D-10






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Dan Kelly


From:
Boston, MA
Post  Posted 6 Apr 2020 4:50 am    
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How does the Emmons neck sound? Did it retain its "growl?" Cool project!
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Gene Tani

 

From:
The Pacific NW,
Post  Posted 6 Apr 2020 5:20 am    
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Nice!

But do you call it a "push all pull"?
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Greg Cutshaw


From:
Corry, PA, USA
Post  Posted 6 Apr 2020 5:22 am    
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That is pretty neat and unique!
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Dave Mudgett


From:
Central Pennsylvania
Post  Posted 6 Apr 2020 6:14 am    
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That's a great idea, and definitely - not crazy at all! I think Sho-Bud on E9 and Emmons on C6 is sort of a perfect combination.

I admit that I don't like to see perfectly great D10 guitars chopped into SD10 for what - 5-10 pounds of weight savings? Yeah, I know - their guitar, I'm not proposing a prohibition. But it especially saddens me when it's a really nice D10 of a type that is hard to get anymore. It's not the 1960s - it's easy now to just buy or trade into an SD10 if that's what you want.
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Ken Byng


From:
Southampton, England
Post  Posted 6 Apr 2020 6:29 am    
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Do you have a pic of your endplate at the changer end Mike?
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Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Infinity SD10 (4+5) Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E,
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Larry Bressington


From:
The beautiful sunsets of Nebraska
Post  Posted 6 Apr 2020 6:33 am    
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Beautiful work Mike, one of a kind and something to be proud of for sure.
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Andy DePaule


From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
Post  Posted 6 Apr 2020 7:08 am     Why Not!
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Why Not!... So now it's a Sho-Bud-Buddy? Laughing
Nice job. Whoa! Very Happy
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2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering.
Promat #11 2007, D-10 Blond & Mahogany with Gold Tuners.
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Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Long E6/9th.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3 PSG, Restoration Project.
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Mike DiAlesandro


From:
Kent, Ohio
Post  Posted 6 Apr 2020 7:25 am    
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Thanks for all the kind words from my SGF brothers! Now if I could only convince my wife about the crazy part...

I have it set-up with 3 pedals, the 5th,6th and 7th, with the 8th pedal on a knee lever CKL, and a dedicated C6th RKL that lowers the 3rd string. I tried using the the Sho~Bud E9th lever as double duty, but it was a bit stiff, and ruined the feel on the E9th neck.

Anyway, here is a clip of the C6th neck, it has a Telonics 409 pickup, and is being played thru a Telonics amp, I believe it was Greg Cutshaws originally.

https://soundcloud.com/flatearthramblers/night-life
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Erv Niehaus


From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
Post  Posted 6 Apr 2020 7:49 am    
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Where there's a will, there's a way.
You did good! Very Happy
Erv
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Jerry Roller


From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
Post  Posted 6 Apr 2020 4:41 pm    
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Yeah, I see you put a solid plate behind the C6 tuning window for the push pull tuning screws.
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Charlie Hansen


From:
Halifax, NS Canada and Various Southern Towns.
Post  Posted 6 Apr 2020 5:39 pm    
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As my grand father used to say “well done the young fella”.
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Mark Eaton


From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
Post  Posted 7 Apr 2020 1:20 am    
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Dave Mudgett wrote:


I admit that I don't like to see perfectly great D10 guitars chopped into SD10 for what - 5-10 pounds of weight savings? Yeah, I know - their guitar, I'm not proposing a prohibition. But it especially saddens me when it's a really nice D10 of a type that is hard to get anymore. It's not the 1960s - it's easy now to just buy or trade into an SD10 if that's what you want.


In an article on Lloyd Green in The Country Music Journal a number of years ago, he said that the original LDG, where Shot Jackson removed all the C6th components in the early 1970s and attached a pad reduced the original weight of the guitar by 18 lbs.

As you wrote, it’s easy enough to acquire an SD-10 nowadays, but in that era, and as busy as he was with hustling around Nashville doing so many sessions - converting that D-10 and saving 18 lbs. likely did wonders for Lloyd’s back.
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Larry Bressington


From:
The beautiful sunsets of Nebraska
Post  Posted 7 Apr 2020 5:51 am    
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Not to hinder this thread...but i loafed A D10 Sho-Bud a decade or so ago and took measurements. Using a bathroom scale on hard concrete there was approx 15-20lbs difference, it went from 75lbs in the case to like 56lbs. At that time i was doing flying and was trying to squeeze the lower than 50lbs. I never came in under the 50lbs but it dropped the rate, not to mention you can feel 20lbs bigtime.

The wooden neck was quite heafty which is why they went to a lightweight alloy necks, practically no weight and still have a neck.

Those old pedal rods, crossrods, keyhead and jumbo tuners and pedals added up quite a bit too, i think if you loafer a newer guitar today they weight less to start with, and you lose less when you take stuff off.

Your work is immaculate Mike.
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Dave Mudgett


From:
Central Pennsylvania
Post  Posted 7 Apr 2020 6:54 am    
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Quote:
Those old pedal rods, crossrods, keyhead and jumbo tuners and pedals added up quite a bit too, i think if you loafer a newer guitar today they weight less to start with, and you lose less when you take stuff off.

Yup - the guts in a lot of those older pedal steels were quite a bit heavier than in a lot of modern steels. I've had a couple of Buds apart and the changer, pull rods, extra pedals and so on were very substantial. And I've had some modern steels apart - they were definitely significantly lighter.

And as I also implicitly acknowledged in my first post - back in the 60s and the early 70s, a stock SD10 was not even available, and it took some time before they came into prominence. So I get why people did it back then.

This is, more or less, comparable to people modifying guitars back in the 60s to early 80s. Strats were Strats, Teles were Teles, Les Pauls were Les Pauls; you didn't get to customize much of anything. If you wanted Strat pickups that didn't hum, you had to mod the guitar. If you wanted a trem on a Tele or Les Paul, you had to add it. If you wanted a Floyd on a Strat, you had to mod it.

But that was then, this is now. I (and almost anybody in the guitar world) cringe if anybody says they're gonna put a Floyd on a vintage Strat. In fact, I haven't seen or heard of anybody doing anything like that in 30+ years because there are abundant alternatives for someone wanting an excellent quality non-vintage Strat with a Floyd or some other modified variation. Add to that the intrinsic and monetary value of old Strats, plus the fact that the supply of nice vintage guitars is very limited.

So I argue the analogous line for opting to just get a nice SD10 instead of chopping down a nice D10. Now, not 30-50 years ago.
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Mike DiAlesandro


From:
Kent, Ohio
Post  Posted 7 Apr 2020 8:03 am    
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Thanks again guys for the interesting replies to this topic.

To answer Ken's question, here is a photo of the endplate. It was a template for a better machined piece, which over time lost it's necessity. Smile



Lynn Stafford offered the suggestion to use an L bracket, which I did. It is 1/8" 6061 aluminum. I attached a 1/4" piece to it, drilled all the pilot holes 7/64" for a 6/32 tap.

I than drilled out the existing larger holes on the bottom row for the open tuning screws on the changer. I than separated the pieces and drilled out the larger hole on the 1/8" L bracket, and than tapped out the 1/4 stock for the 6-32 lower stop screws. Worked out ok.

Also, I had to router the cabinet out to accommodate the lower return springs, as Emmons cabinets are around a 1/2" I think, and Sho~Buds are 3/4", at least this year model was.

All in all well worth the effort. I used the Telonics 409 because I was able to find one. I'm sure a lightly wound single coil might add to the "growl".

Thanks again for the nice words!
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Mike DiAlesandro


From:
Kent, Ohio
Post  Posted 7 Apr 2020 8:07 am    
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Johnie King

 

From:
Tennessee, USA
Post  Posted 7 Apr 2020 10:53 am    
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That’s really cool Mike congratulations!
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Mike DiAlesandro


From:
Kent, Ohio
Post  Posted 7 Apr 2020 4:33 pm    
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Johnie King wrote:
That’s really cool Mike congratulations!


Thanks Johnie!
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