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Post new topic Split the C-pedal’s 4th & 5th strings, F# / C# pull?
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Author Topic:  Split the C-pedal’s 4th & 5th strings, F# / C# pull?
Mark Hepler

 

From:
Virginia, USA
Post  Posted 18 Mar 2020 7:31 am    
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Has anyone (besides Mooney) made the “C” pedal raise only the 4th (E) string to F#, splitting the F# and C# pulls?

You wouldn’t have parallel 5ths, but it would be cool to isolate the E to F# change: lots of twang potential.

There must be a reason no one does it . . . just wondered.
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Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 18 Mar 2020 9:04 am    
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I would miss the amusement of those two strings twanging together, plus a chordal thing or two it makes possible. You can’t do A+C without double footing, and if you wanted B in there too....

My guitar had E>F# on the vertical when I bought it. The friend who owned it previously valued that change very highly. I messed with it and could see some use, but an F#>G raise was more important to me, so that’s what the vertical is now and for the foreseeable future.
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Tucker Jackson

 

From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
Post  Posted 18 Mar 2020 9:37 am    
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Mark, it's easy to try out to test the possibilities. Just grab your tuning wrench and unscrew the tension off of the 5th string's C-pedal nut.

Let us know if you find some cool options.
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Mark Hepler

 

From:
Virginia, USA
Post  Posted 18 Mar 2020 2:47 pm    
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Tucker Jackson wrote:
Mark, it's easy to try out to test the possibilities. Let us know if you find some cool options.


If I work up the nerve to dabble with my Emmons push/pull, I'll let you know what happens:)

Without tension from the B-C# raise, I think the pedal would feel very sloppy, so I'd have to redo a few things. I haven't touched my setup, except to replace broken springs, since Jimmy Crawford built it. (Sho-Bud's and such are a lot easier to tweak.)

Al Perkins' earliest Fender steel had the F# pedal raise, but I don't know of anyone else except Mooney. It seems like it would lend itself to speed/chicken pickin'.

Thanks
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Charley Bond


From:
Inola, OK, USA
Post  Posted 18 Mar 2020 3:26 pm     I have the E to F# on my Left Vertical Knee lever
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Right now, I'm using C Pedal to lower my Bs, but may change that to the 4th pedal... don't know yet.

My Left Vertical Knee Lever is super quick & easy to pull/push
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Eric Dahlhoff


From:
Point Arena, California
Post  Posted 18 Mar 2020 5:16 pm     Brumley
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I'm pretty sure that Tom Brumley had a knee lever for #4 E-F# so he could use the A pedal with it.
I had a ZB that came with a 2nd LKL with that change.
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Chris Reesor

 

From:
British Columbia, Canada
Post  Posted 18 Mar 2020 7:07 pm    
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Mark, I'm guessing Al Perkins' first Fender was likely an 8 string, as Mooney's almost certainly was.

You Mooney guys out there, did he use Pedal C as we know it today?

If you have 8 strings with the highest two at E and G# and no chromatic strings, like Mooney in his early days, then having that high E-F# change over on the right on a pedal for two footing makes a lot of sense, especially if you want to bounce it quick.

That second LKL would be useful too, though not as quick as a pedal.

In any case there are lots of good reasons not to ditch the C pedal.
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Georg Sørtun


From:
Mandal, VA, Norway & Weeki Wachee, FL, USA
Post  Posted 18 Mar 2020 7:45 pm    
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E to F# on a lever is "standard" in my setups, but I leave the C pedal as is.
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K Maul


From:
Upstate NY/Hobe Sound FL
Post  Posted 19 Mar 2020 4:30 am    
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Chris Reesor wrote:

You Mooney guys out there, did he use Pedal C as we know it today?.


Ralph never had a “C” pedal



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Jack Goodson

 

From:
new brockton,alabama (deceased)
Post  Posted 19 Mar 2020 6:36 am     4th string raise?
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i had a friend that played a emmons pp for years, bobby seymour set it up with a half stop on the fourth string. it raised the fourth a whole tone and the 8th a half tone.. he had the c
pedal also....thanks jack
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Pete Burak

 

From:
Portland, OR USA
Post  Posted 19 Mar 2020 8:28 am    
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Georg Sørtun wrote:
E to F# on a lever is "standard" in my setups, but I leave the C pedal as is.

Same here.
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J R Rose


From:
Keota, Oklahoma, USA
Post  Posted 19 Mar 2020 8:49 am    
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In my early days of learning I had 4th string E, RKR to F# and 2nd string D# on RKL to D as did my mentor and friend Jim Florance had. He used it all the time. He played Mooney as well as anyone could. But not me! When I brought my first new Carter John Fabian & Bud Carter convinced me to give up the E to F# and learn how to use pedal C. I did that for several years but when I got my first guitar that had both Es raise on LKL I quickly found that I could just retune the pull on the 4th string to F# and that's what I do now. I never could find how to use just to F. I never was a great picker and never could hear how to make certain moves so I just did what I could and so I like the E to F# knee lever. But, I still have it on pedal C. Thanks, J.R. Rose
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b0b


From:
Cloverdale, CA
Post  Posted 19 Mar 2020 11:05 am    
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I always had the high E to F# on the vertical lever of my E9th gigging guitar. Sometimes I had a C pedal, sometimes not. In recent years it's been D to E as I've switched to a D6th tuning, but it's the same change.

You lose the ability to "bounce" on it with a knee lever, though. Ralph Mooney licks really do require it on a pedal. On the D6th, I can still bounce that change on what would be C6th pedal 7. Mr. Green
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Larry Allen


From:
Kapaa’,Kauai,Hawaii
Post  Posted 19 Mar 2020 1:37 pm    
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I added a B-C# raise on the low B..standard upper raises..nice fat chord C pedal Shocked
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Pat Chong

 

From:
New Mexico, USA
Post  Posted 27 Mar 2020 6:42 am    
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I too, am like George and Pete, having an E to F# on string 4, but also on 8, on a pedal, I need the bounce. My C pedal remains, though. The E-F# raise comes in handy, and from past posts, may be more popular than thought.......Pat.
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Larry Bressington


From:
The beautiful sunsets of Nebraska
Post  Posted 4 Apr 2020 5:00 pm    
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So it that with an extra E-F# lever such as a staggered? do you still have the E-F lever or do you split it?
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Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
Post  Posted 5 Apr 2020 3:39 am    
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Larry Bressington wrote:
So it that with an extra E-F# lever such as a staggered? do you still have the E-F lever or do you split it?


I had the E to F# knee lever for many years. But, I also had the E to F lever. I tried a half stop on the E to F# lever, but hated it. The F lever gets used quickly, and getting the F on string 4 to be perfectly "in tune" with the C# on string 5 was very hit and miss. Very unreliable.

I think splitting it (I assume you mean raising a full step to F# and using the E to D# lever to split to an F), would be worse. With a half stop, you are only activating 1 lever, but splitting will require using 2 together. Some common (quick) F lever licks would've very cumbersome at best.
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Georg Sørtun


From:
Mandal, VA, Norway & Weeki Wachee, FL, USA
Post  Posted 5 Apr 2020 4:26 am    
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I have two different solutions.

I prefer the mechanically a little complex solution I made on my old Dekley, with a linear-moving LKV to unlock LKL and LKR from half-tone raise/lower to full-tone raise/lower of all 3 E strings – extended tuning.
In effect I get two extra changes by lifting a tailored, gravity-loaded (no real resistance), LKV ever so slightly.

On another PSG, a GFI, I use the original LKV directly to raise both E strings a full-tone, with the pretty standard half-tone raise on LKL and half-tone lower on LKR.
Simple to arrange and play with, but I miss the full-tone lower I have on the old Dekley.
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