| Author |
Topic: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe |
Danny Hullihen
From:
Harrison, Michigan
|
Posted 22 Feb 2020 11:15 am |
|
Anybody have any experience with using a 40 watt Fender Hot Rod Deluxe for pedal steel guitar?
_________________
http://www.jagwirestrings.com |
|
|
|
James Holland
From:
Alabama, USA
|
Posted 23 Feb 2020 4:44 am
|
|
| No, but they are pretty loud with the stock speaker, and get much of the traditional Fender tone, so I'd think one in good working order would sound flattering. An even better guitar amp for steel that's in good supply, might be a Deville, 60W in either the 4x10 or 2x12 configuration. And my fav guitar/steel amp would be any of the Twins. |
|
|
|
Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
|
|
|
|
Gary Lee Gimble
From:
Fredericksburg, VA.
|
Posted 23 Feb 2020 6:28 am
|
|
I own two, one is the George Benson release. I'm not to fond of the reverb in the regular HRD, so I use an external effect. Both amps are light with the GB HRD maybe 8 pounds lighter. No issues with reliability and no complaints from the many groups who've booked me, in fact, I received a compliment from my most recent gig. Our sound man was impressed with a nice clear tone, free of shrillness, as he put it. There is more head room in the GB HRD with both amps having plenty of volume. At larger venues, amps are mic'd.
_________________
Assorted gear and a set of hands...
https://www.facebook.com/garythelee
https://www.youtube.com/user/ZumEmm |
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 23 Feb 2020 1:21 pm
|
|
YES, I've owned at least 2 of them over the years, maybe 3. I bought one brand new when they hit the streets around 95 or 96. I happen to think they are great amps. Bright clean Fender tones, unlike the PV amps. Not to be compared.
Here's the deal, excellent clean tone , perhaps adequate for MOST gigs. To a point, then not. When they run out of headroom they become annoying !
I did what many owners did, tried all sorts of stuff to increase headroom, tubes, speakers etc...truth is we really can't change the characteristics of the amp all that much, it is what it is.
Small to moderate rooms these are excellent amps especially if we don't need to push them past their clean limits.
If you need a bit more guts but love the bright tone, grab a 2x12/ 60 watt HR Deville, that extra 20 watts makes all the difference for headroom. Its not really a louder amp but it does have that extra headroom that may be needed. I still own a 2x12 Deville. I've had it since 2000 or so, its a great double duty big room amp. I no longer own a 40 watt Deluxe, sold the last one maybe a year ago.
Would I acquire another 40 watt Deluxe,? Probably if the deal was right. There's always room for an amp like this.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
|
|
|
Brooks Montgomery
From:
Idaho, USA
|
Posted 23 Feb 2020 2:13 pm
|
|
I had a HRD for several years, sold it this year.
I could never could quite get it where I thought it should sound by its reputation.
The overdrive channel was blistery (and I couldn’t find the “sweet spotâ€), the clean channel was just missing something to my ears. I took the money and applied towards the new Fender Tone Master Twin, which I find excellent for my different instruments: blues harp, steel guitar, and pedal. The attenuator makes it easy for me to find the sound that I’m looking for. As far as tubes, I do also have an old black face Princeton (that I’ll never get rid of).
_________________
A banjo, like a pet monkey, seems like a good idea at first. |
|
|
|
Danny Hullihen
From:
Harrison, Michigan
|
Posted 23 Feb 2020 3:05 pm
|
|
Thanks for the info folks. Very helpful.
I've had a few upgrades done on this amp, (better quality filter caps, biasing, etc) and it's getting better. But I'm still having a few issues with head room, and my amp tech thinks he might have some cures to help with that a bit too?
I'm using a 12AT7 in the V-1 position instead of the stock 12AX7, which helps a little, and I'm thinking of maybe upgrading the speaker too, but I'm hoping to find something that can handle maybe 100 watts or so, but without adding more weight, and keeping good tone. Maybe a Neodymium?
This amp I have is a '98 American Made HDR.So far it's been pretty good for smaller venues, but if your push it very hard, it overdrives pretty quick. I'm thinking maybe the Lawrence 710 pickups are a bot too hot for this particular amp?
_________________
http://www.jagwirestrings.com |
|
|
|
Shawn Brown
From:
Ontario, Canada
|
Posted 23 Feb 2020 3:42 pm
|
|
| I use one quite often. Good for club use. My amp tech did a mod to the midrange which also made the bass and treble controls much more responsive. It is still a bright amp, so I have the bass up all the way and the treble usually down all the way , the mid under 1/2 way to get the tone I like. I also use the lower gain 2nd input usually, but have a Chase Tone Secret Preamp in the signal chain. |
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 24 Feb 2020 1:25 am
|
|
The best way to upgrade the HR Deluxe to improve headroom is an HR Deville ! 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
|
|
|
Chris Boyd
From:
Leonia,N.J./Charlestown,R.I.
|
|
|
|
Danny Hullihen
From:
Harrison, Michigan
|
Posted 24 Feb 2020 6:21 am
|
|
I appreciate the suggestions for the HR Deville. However, I don't need another amp, as I have at least 10 other amps to chose from, all of which work great for both guitar and steel. What I'm trying to do is see if I can find a way to make the HR Deluxe work good for steel.
_________________
http://www.jagwirestrings.com |
|
|
|
Norman Evans
From:
Tennessee
|
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 24 Feb 2020 7:07 am
|
|
| Danny Hullihen wrote: |
| I appreciate the suggestions for the HR Deville. However, I don't need another amp, as I have at least 10 other amps to chose from, all of which work great for both guitar and steel. What I'm trying to do is see if I can find a way to make the HR Deluxe work good for steel. |
Danny, the question proposed is can we make the 40 Watt Deluxe into an amp with more headroom which you have already stated you are aware of.
This has been a conversation on countless music forums for the last 20 years ! For many, the answer was "get a 2x12 Deville" Headroom problem solved !
Its just a comment, an option.
IF we calculate out what a lessor gain preamp tube does, we end up with an amp with less than the rated 40 watts . We are not changing the PS voltage ( HI DC) to the power tubes or the OT. IF changing a preamp tube was indeed the solution, Fender would have done it 25 years ago .
For ex, the HR Deluxe runs the 6L6's at +438 VDC , the HR Deville runs them at +483 . thats a huge gap to try to overcome with either a preamp tube or a speaker. It is what it is.
In actuality if we change a preamp tube with a lower gain profile, we may have to push the amp harder to get back to where we were !
Its a great amp, but at some point and for some gigs, it's not great anymore ! 
AND YES, I always ran mine with a 1x12 ext cab, bringing the total load to 4 ohms. Was it better ? I dunno, I didn't notice any significant difference .
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
|
|
|
Travis Wilson
From:
Johnson City, TX
|
Posted 24 Feb 2020 9:49 am
|
|
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=698218
From Lloyd Green:
I have finally, after almost a full year, finished my first instrumental album (CD) in about a dozen years. It will not be released until the St. Louis convention where Russ Pahl, the producer, and I wish to preview it. It is unique and will almost certainly be my last instrumental project. The listeners can judge the sound, tone and originality without any preconceptions from me other than to say there are a lot of new ideas and licks, as well as old, incorporated into the effort.
The entire CD was recorded with my 1973 (original) LDG Sho-Bud steel, but with a BL 710 pickup instead of the single coil Sho-Bud. One song has a solo on which I used my 1930s Dobro ( which was on all the Don William's records). My amp of choice was a Fender Hot-Rod Deluxe, with a 15" D-130 JBL speaker.
Currently for sessions I am still using the Hot-Rod but have also begun again recording with a Black Face Fender Twin with one 15" D-130F JBL. I like both but may concede to the Twin since my best 60s and 70s sound was with a similar amp.
My friend, Junior Brown, sings one song and plays a fine electric guitar solo on another. Also, Gillian Welch sings one song which I originally cut on the "Sweetheart of The Rodeo" album.
At St. Louis I will again play through 2 Peavey 1000s since, for live performances, they still sound best to my aging ears at the present. |
|
|
|
Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
|
Posted 24 Feb 2020 1:08 pm
|
|
| I had two different Hot Rod Deluxes. I got rid of both of them. One of them just plain sounded like crap and the other one had this weird cabinet rattle/vibration when there was any kind of low end produced. No matter what I tried I couldn't get rid of it. Not to mention the lead/overdrive channel sounded like a chainsaw crossed with a hive full of bees. They were the only two Fender amps I ever owned that I hated and couldn't wait to get rid of them. |
|
|
|
Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
|
Posted 24 Feb 2020 5:04 pm
|
|
I have found them to be pretty sweet as long as you don't have to push them. I used one in church for a couple of years. My objection is they don't go for very long without developing issues with the printed circuit boards, grid resistors or other failures.
_________________
LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Harlow Dobro |
|
|
|
Travis Wilson
From:
Johnson City, TX
|
Posted 24 Feb 2020 8:05 pm
|
|
Here’s Tommy Whites Hot Rod Deluxe settings..
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1883330
| Tommy White wrote: |
Kevin, you always " bring it" to the forum. So nice to know you and so glad your honest opinion is here! Thank you.
Richard, volume on 5,
Treble on 4, Middle on 4, Bass on 8, Presence on 0. Reverb on 31/2.
Tone for days with any of my Show Pros or my 1976 Emmons original. |
|
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 25 Feb 2020 2:28 am
|
|
| Clyde Mattocks wrote: |
| I have found them to be pretty sweet as long as you don't have to push them. I used one in church for a couple of years. My objection is they don't go for very long without developing issues with the printed circuit boards, grid resistors or other failures. |
Yep , Clyde is correct, its a common issue. The two primary SCREEN resistors are many times mounted TOO CLOSE to the PC BD and cause surface burns. Removing the PC BD is a real pain as we have to take the entire amp apart . The PC BD itself is very susceptible to heat damage when repairs are required. I know this first hand.
BUT, there is a method for some repairs, such as caps and the screen resistors. Remove (cut) the parts from the component side, without removing the PC Bd. Pig Tail the new parts in place. Do it with a very lo watt iron. This method of electronic repair has been around for decades but does take experience.
Unless the amp is DOA, I have performed all cap changes on my HR Series of amps using the pig tail method without removing the PC BD. Secure the caps with a small amount of clear RTV. And no, it doesn't look like a Rube Goldberg repair.
which brings up another point, thx to Clyde, when making a purchase of the Blues or HR Series amps, USED, before you buy it, remove the back cover over the PC BD. LOOK at the PC BD and inspect it, look at the two SCREEN resistors, you can't miss them , center of the PC BD near the bottom, two big fella's ( 5 watt resistors) right next to each other . Is the PC BD burned underneath them ?
This should not scare people into walking away, its just a public service announcement ! They are still great amps.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
|
|
|
Danny Hullihen
From:
Harrison, Michigan
|
Posted 25 Feb 2020 4:16 am
|
|
The two primary SCREEN resistors are many times mounted TOO CLOSE to the PC BD and cause surface burns. Removing the PC BD is a real pain as we have to take the entire amp apart . The PC BD itself is very susceptible to heat damage when repairs are required. I know this first hand.
Your are correct about that Tony, and I took care of that by extending the screen resistors higher up off the pc board to allow more air circulation. I also installed a complete Fromel mod kit replacing all the filer caps with better quality that the Illinois caps it came with, and all new diodes as well. (FM filer caps, matched diodes, etc.)
This didn't make the amp sound/work any better as far as head room is concerned, but the replacement parts are much higher quality the original parts that Fender used, which was common in all the series of HRD amps.
Anyway, it's still a work in progress. I may never be able to get it to perform like I'm hoping? Nonetheless, I really do love the tone on this amp. Definitely not one of the easier tube amps to work on! Very delicate. One has to be very careful or you'll end up doing more harm than good on these!
_________________
http://www.jagwirestrings.com |
|
|
|
Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
|
Posted 25 Feb 2020 9:54 am
|
|
| You can get significantly more headroom from your HRD by installing a speaker with a higher sensitivity rating. For example an Eminence Red White and Blues is rated at 101 db. This will give a noticeable boost in headroom over the stock speaker. I'd probably look at some of the neodymiums as well in order to bring the weight down, as long as the sensitivity is in the 100 - 101 db range. That's the top end of the range. |
|
|
|
Danny Hullihen
From:
Harrison, Michigan
|
Posted 25 Feb 2020 12:06 pm
|
|
| Tim Whitlock wrote: |
| You can get significantly more headroom from your HRD by installing a speaker with a higher sensitivity rating. For example an Eminence Red White and Blues is rated at 101 db. This will give a noticeable boost in headroom over the stock speaker. I'd probably look at some of the neodymiums as well in order to bring the weight down, as long as the sensitivity is in the 100 - 101 db range. That's the top end of the range. |
Tim. That sounds like it might just be what is needed here. I'm thinking about trying the Celestion G12P -80, which is the new stock speaker they are using now in the newer versions of the HRD amps. The G12P-80 has a sensitivity rating of 99 dB. and rated at 80 watts, which is probably much better than the stock speaker it came with? Whatcha think?
_________________
http://www.jagwirestrings.com |
|
|
|
Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
|
Posted 26 Feb 2020 8:18 am
|
|
| Danny Hullihen wrote: |
| Tim Whitlock wrote: |
| You can get significantly more headroom from your HRD by installing a speaker with a higher sensitivity rating. For example an Eminence Red White and Blues is rated at 101 db. This will give a noticeable boost in headroom over the stock speaker. I'd probably look at some of the neodymiums as well in order to bring the weight down, as long as the sensitivity is in the 100 - 101 db range. That's the top end of the range. |
Tim. That sounds like it might just be what is needed here. I'm thinking about trying the Celestion G12P -80, which is the new stock speaker they are using now in the newer versions of the HRD amps. The G12P-80 has a sensitivity rating of 99 dB. and rated at 80 watts, which is probably much better than the stock speaker it came with? Whatcha think? |
Probably is better - I think the old stock speaker was a Jensen Special Design? Jensens are usually pretty low on the sensitivity spectrum. I don't have much experience with Celestions, which always makes me think of Marshall stacks. I have had good luck with Eminence. My ideal 12" speaker of choice for PSG is an Altec 417 or JBL D120. The Travis Toy 12 might also be worth looking at since it is voiced for pedal steel.
https://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Double_T_12 |
|
|
|
Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
|
Posted 26 Feb 2020 8:48 am
|
|
| I always thought my straight stock, USA-built Hot Rod Deluxe (date code LB -- Feb, 2001) was adequate for pedal steel until I obtained a used NV 400-era BW 1501-4 to replace the blown factory JBL in my 1977 LTD 400. No comparison. |
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 26 Feb 2020 9:53 am
|
|
Fender used the Eminence Designed Gold Label 12s in the Blues jr, HR Deluxe and HR Deville, the same speaker. These were the stock speaker for most of the production runs. They were rated at something between 50 and 75 watts and at 100DB. I believe they have moved to a Celestion of some sort.
It is understood that those Gold Label Fender 12's were based on the Eminence Legend platform , just rebranded for Fender. I happen to use these speakers in ALL of my amps and cabs.
Changing speakers in my HR Deluxe with the Emmi Gold Label did nothing for me to increase headroom, in some cases, I lost headroom and put the speaker back in !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
|
|
|
Travis Wilson
From:
Johnson City, TX
|
Posted 26 Feb 2020 10:15 am
|
|
| Tony Prior wrote: |
Fender used the Eminence Designed Gold Label 12s in the Blues jr, HR Deluxe and HR Deville, the same speaker. These were the stock speaker for most of the production runs. They were rated at something between 50 and 75 watts and at 100DB. I believe they have moved to a Celestion of some sort.
It is understood that those Gold Label Fender 12's were based on the Eminence Legend platform , just rebranded for Fender. I happen to use these speakers in ALL of my amps and cabs.
Changing speakers in my HR Deluxe with the Emmi Gold Label did nothing for me to increase headroom, in some cases, I lost headroom and put the speaker back in !
|
It’s in the Wikipedia
From 1996–2010, the stock speaker is an Eminence Legend 1258 75 Watt
2010 the updated version, (dubbed the Hot Rod Deluxe III) was equipped with a Celestion G12P-80
In 2018 it was updated again with a Celestion A-Type speaker |
|
|
|
