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Topic: C6th - Very Easy To Play |
Joseph Napolitano
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2019 5:35 pm |
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| I don't understand why steel players DON'T play C6. You just lay the bar on the strings and right away you get beautiful, lush extended chords, before even using a pedal. There's a lot of great C6 instruction out here. I started with Buddy's Basic C6 course, went thru 2-3 of Herb's, and Steve Palousek's . Now I'm into year two of Paul's course, and his wonderful C6 lessons are why I may even do a third year. I know double necks are heavy, that's why I bought split cases. I know you can get C6 sounds on E9 ( and E9 on C6, as Paul teaches), but there's nothing as good as a full C6 neck. On gigs, there are always at least a couple I-IV-V songs that the back neck makes swing, pretty easily, soon after you learn the tuning. I don't even like leaving the house without the double neck anymore, because there are always at least a few songs called that are perfect for C6. Plus, for me, it helps break up the "sameness" of mashing A-B pedals down all night on E9. |
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Franklin
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Posted 17 Oct 2019 9:49 am
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Thanks Joseph,
I hope to get all of the C6th enthusiasts into the PFM course. I plan on filling in all of the blanks towards improvising easily through changes...Over the next two weeks I should release the first in a new improvisational series into the PFM class... ..."Tackling Giant Steps" I first dissect the song harmonically. Then I show how I go about learning how to improvise through those complicated changes, correctly. I can do this by applying all of the creative single note methods I teach in the course..Everything you need to conquer a song this complex is already laid in the PFM...Now you sit with me as we process how to apply improvisational skills in our own unique and individual ways...Plus in this new improvisational series I introduce a new method to add to those methods I already have in the course....This type of instruction should change the mindsets of so many frustrated C6th players who have hit a wall when it comes to improvising through changes.
Thanks to all for the great comments here....And a special thanks to my friends Buck and Johnny whom both continue to push this tuning into the future, sharing their knowledge with all.....You both are awesome!
Hugs to all you C6th cats! What a journey....I just played it on a Barry Gibb record. The tuning rocks!
Paul |
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Marc Muller
From:
Neptune,NJ USA
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Steve Knight
From:
NC
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Posted 17 Oct 2019 6:01 pm
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I've spent about a year off and on working Giant Steps on guitar and banjo. I finally feel comfortable with the changes at a moderate (not UP) tempo. Now I'm working to play something musical and not mechanical. Pat Metheny has a very musical version on his "Trio 99>00" CD with Larry Grenadier and Bill Stewart. I need to work on this one on C6.
I can't believe I didn't notice this until last week, but you can isolate the toughest part of the song, measure 1,2,5 & 6 bypracticing measures 1,2 & 6 in a loop. That gives you:
B D7 G Bb7 Eb F#7, repeat as long as you can stand to.
Doing that sequence over and over has helped me immensely. I need to get on the PFM course! |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 18 Oct 2019 4:45 am
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| Steve Knight wrote: |
I've spent about a year off and on working Giant Steps on guitar and banjo. I finally feel comfortable with the changes at a moderate (not UP) tempo. Now I'm working to play something musical and not mechanical. Pat Metheny has a very musical version on his "Trio 99>00" CD with Larry Grenadier and Bill Stewart. I need to work on this one on C6.
I can't believe I didn't notice this until last week, but you can isolate the toughest part of the song, measure 1,2,5 & 6 bypracticing measures 1,2 & 6 in a loop. That gives you:
B D7 G Bb7 Eb F#7, repeat as long as you can stand to.
Doing that sequence over and over has helped me immensely. I need to get on the PFM course! |
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Steve Knight
From:
NC
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Posted 18 Oct 2019 5:05 am
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| Sonny, I'm replying to Paul Franklin's comment about the new "Tackling Giant Steps" lesson in his online course, two posts up from mine. |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 18 Oct 2019 1:12 pm
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| The version Marc linked above is a little easier to follow than the original, C-B#7-Dbb-C7-Dbb-B#7, repeat until someone shoots you. |
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Franklin
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Posted 20 Oct 2019 10:44 am
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Loved it! and that is very funny Marc...Lol
Coltranes Giant Steps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30FTr6G53VU&list=PL5rn4dznj_QSo72TZFfWb0rLpEEq-k49r
Just so everyone else knows....That version was posted as a joke by the person who removed Coltrane and the bands audio from the video and then overdubbed everything into a major key to create that clip....Coltrane never played it that way..
Paul Franklin |
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scott murray
From:
Asheville, NC
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 21 Oct 2019 9:28 am
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| OK,,,I'm going to have to confess,,,while I do like jazz to a certain depth,,,I can not for the life of me hear any kind of chord progression in these songs!! Like,,I can listen to a country song,,even most old country swing stuff and hear sensible progressions,,,but on the type of songs referenced above,,,I fail to hear any kind of pattern. Is it just me,,,or are these guys just choosing to play phrases out of the scale,,,including substitutions,,,and substitutions for substitutions,,ad infinity ,,,,,,does it just not matter what the progression is? |
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Steve Knight
From:
NC
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Posted 21 Oct 2019 10:48 am
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Well, I'll defer to Paul's ears, but I think the players in Coltrane's quartet are pretty much playing straight over the changes. The changes are unusual and they are going by very quickly. If you listen to the piano in the head, Tommy Flanagan is playing a chord over every change. Paul Chambers' bass line is over the changes, just really fast. It's easy to get lost in this one at any tempo. Tommy Flanagan's piano solo strays from the chords somewhat, as it's a very difficult tune for anyone to play. I'd love to play it as well as he did on that take. Coltrane nailed it; but, he's Trane. |
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scott murray
From:
Asheville, NC
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Posted 21 Oct 2019 10:50 am
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at this point, I think it's really up to the players to feature C6 and bring it to a higher level of exposure. I've been taking more chances on C6 at gigs and it always gets a good response. audiences are not hung up on E9 vs C6. most people love the sound of steel guitar regardless of which neck we're on.
it's also up to us players not to pigeonhole the tuning into the hawaiian/western swing/jazz category. I love those types of music but steel guitar is simply an instrument. we decide what gets played on it. lately I find that just about anything is possible on C6 and I don't necessarily feel that way about E9. there are some things that might lay out better on E9, but overall I think C6 lends itself to just about everything. especially with an expanded copedent.
I don't play much classical music, but we've heard Franklin, Emmons, Jernigan and others do it on C6. I know a lot of guys switch to C6 for harder rock or blues numbers. I love pop music and play everything from Beach Boys and Burt Bacharach to Stevie Wonder and Michael Jackson on C6. Steely Dan, Thelonious Monk, Tom Jobim... you name it!
it's great to see younger players like Tyler Hall, Eddy Dunlap, Tobin Hess, etc keeping the C6 progressive and vital. not to mention the long-time pros like Paul, Doug, Buck Reid, etc.
the only obstacle to C6 I've noticed with newer players is they feel they just don't have the attention and time to learn two necks. it's understandable since the majority of us got into pedal steel for the E9 sound. I started the same way, on a single neck looking to play standard country E9 licks. but I slowly fell in love with C6 and within a couple years I had to have a double neck. it's a common trend and I'm sure it will continue.
thanks for the thread Paul, and for the attention you've given C6 in the studio, on stage, and in your teachings. I'd love to get signed up one of these days, hate to think of what I'm missing!
_________________
1965 Emmons S-10, 3x5 • Emmons LLIII D-10, 10x12 • JCH D-10, 10x12 • Beard MA-8 • Oahu Tonemaster |
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Bruce Bouton
From:
Nash. Tn USA
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Posted 12 Nov 2019 12:46 pm
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Thank you Paul , for creating all of these great resources for folks to learn how to play this instrument. The sky is the limit if one is willing to work. Speaking for myself, I've learned so much from the method . My only regret is that it wasn't around in the seventies when I started down this road:)
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www.brucebouton.com |
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Rene Brosseau
From:
Chatham,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 6 Feb 2020 6:02 pm E9
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All you fella's with single neck E9, don't feel left out... lower your E's & play a lot of BC pedals...I got this solo down in a couple hrs...I'm 62 yrs old, now all I have to do is remember !!!
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Franklin #130, Melobar Skreemer, Wechter Scheerhorn Resonator, Nashville 112, Boss DD 3 &/or Profex II |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 7 Feb 2020 4:38 am
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In addition to Paul Franklin's excellent C6 tuition on the internet, Herb Steiner very kindly made his C6 chord charts available to the public domain a few years ago. They are in PDF format, and are great reference points for those who want to know what chords can be obtained using the various pedals and levers on a fairly standard C6 set up. I have found them to be incredibly helpful over the years since I obtained mine from Herb.
My good friend Buck Reid told me many years ago that the C6 tuning was easier to learn than the E9 neck. Very similarly to Paul's demonstration, Buck showed me on his guitar where several different chords could be found on a single open C6 tuning with no levers or pedals. Paul has cleverly opened up the C6 tuning in his video, and the way that he has presented is superb for those of us who want to make more of the C6 neck.
_________________
Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E, |
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Mark Wayne
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Franklin
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Posted 12 Feb 2020 1:07 pm
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This is an overview showing how I break songs down to make improvisation easier. I chose "Giant Steps" changes to demonstrate how the method works. The C6th is such a cool tuning....Thank you Jerry Byrd!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGLeTnFsqE8
Thanks All
Paul |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 12 Feb 2020 3:12 pm
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Wow.
_________________
Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E, |
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Fish
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Posted 12 Feb 2020 5:50 pm
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| Franklin wrote: |
This is an overview showing how I break songs down to make improvisation easier. I chose "Giant Steps" changes to demonstrate how the method works. The C6th is such a cool tuning....Thank you Jerry Byrd!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGLeTnFsqE8
Thanks All
Paul |
And thank you Paul Franklin!
Steve |
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Brian Straub
From:
Connecticut, USA
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Posted 25 Feb 2020 10:43 am C6 essentials
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Picked up the C6 Essentials course a month ago... learning a lot about the tuning and it's really explained well.
_________________
Justice D-10, Evans Amp, Sarno V-8, Gibson Lap Steel BR-9, Telonics Pedal. |
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Steve Cattermole
From:
California, USA
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Posted 25 Feb 2020 12:07 pm
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| I with agree with Ken,beside the PFM material,you should check out Herb Steiner C6 chord essay on his web site.He shows what chords he gets using the various pedals and combo's,and it's done really well.From it I've learned to play all the jazz chords 3 different ways ,which has really helped.So get the Franklin course,the Steiner essay,and a Jazz or Standards Fake Book and away you go.It's really fun finding chordal melody on C6 |
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Steve Cattermole
From:
California, USA
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Posted 25 Feb 2020 12:15 pm
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| Also,the Emmons C6 beginner course is great.Steel Guitars of North County in Oceanside,Ca carries it.Good Luck |
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