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Post new topic Jules Ah See Tuning on a 9 or 10 string?
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Author Topic:  Jules Ah See Tuning on a 9 or 10 string?
Paul McEvoy

 

From:
Baltimore, USA
Post  Posted 22 Jan 2020 12:01 pm    
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Hi there,

I put the lap steel away for a while but I'm drawn back to it lately.

I really would like to try to Jules Ah See C6 tuning but have already developed a really strong preference for having a high G string.

Seems like that pushes me out of being able to use an 8 string ultimately.

Just wondering what your thoughts on either a 9 string with an added High G string, or a 10 string with an extra string choice (? what would you pick)?

And does that makes sense at all?

Thanks
Paul
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Scott Thomas

 

Post  Posted 22 Jan 2020 1:42 pm    
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Jules tuning is C Bb C, on the bottom right? Tough to know what else to add to that.

Two extended C tunings that I know of (Reece Anderson, Billy Robinson)add a D above the high G, and put an F on the bottom for F A C E for a major 7th strum. I suppose you could keep the Bb on the bottom for a dom 7 strum a la Jules.
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Nic Neufeld


From:
Kansas City, Missouri
Post  Posted 22 Jan 2020 2:48 pm    
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Kind of a fun topic!

First off, with C13 (E C A G E C Bb C), the low C is awesome for big Hawaii Calls chords, but for general playing and jamming, I think you could do OK with an 8 string that trades the low C for a high G ( G E C A G E C Bb)...one of those really common chords Jules would strum usually on the V of the song up from the b7 string (b7 1 3 5 13) still works. So you can't get the big booming sound without a thick low C string but you can get most of what he played in C13 no problem. The Bb is a lot more important than the low C for harmony reasons (and you also have to get used to it no longer being a pure strum tuning, you don't always want a b7 in there).

If you were going to do that, you might also consider doing A13...basically get a set of A6 8 string strings and sharp your low F# to G, and you've got the equivalent tuning but with a slightly deeper voicing. Unless you're already used to positions in C6, in which case, stick with what you know.

Another option for 8 string...lose the second to lowest C. When Alan Akaka teaches people songs in C13, he has to assume they have a 6 string, and so he tabs it out as (E C A G E Bb). You could try doing something similar with high G / low C ( G E C A G E Bb C). There are some fun slants on the low strings (E C Bb) that you'd miss out on, but its an option.

I've thought about what I'd do with a 9 string...and it's B11, specifically. I'd add a top G#. This would make it a bit of a split tuning, with B9 on the bottom and A6 / A Maj7 on top. That maj7 chord on top would be really nice for songs like Mapuana. I don't think Jules necessarily played a tuning like this (he played B11 of course, but as far as I know he maxed out at 8 strings). But it sounds like you're thinking more Jules C13...

If you had a 9 string you could certainly do the Jules C13 with an extra top G. 10 strings would be more commonly available, so what else might one do with an extra string...well, some people like the A7 chord you get by sharping the second-to-lowest C to C# (usually written as C6/A7, a favorite of Jerry Byrd). I've seen tunings that include both the C and the C#. But it completely ruins the "strummable" nature of the tuning and so you really, really would have to watch what you were doing with it and always hit the right strings. And of course, just because you have 10 tuners on a neck doesn't mean you've got to put a string on each one...you could still treat it like a 9 string.

If you've got an 8 string already I'd recommend trying one of the following before assuming you need a 10str:
* Ditch the low string and do A13 or C13 with the b7 on the bottom and the 5th on top
* Maybe try skipping the medium C to add the low C, and see if you like it.
* Or try Jules original top E string just to see what you'd prefer on the lower strings, the bass note C, or the closer cluster of notes (Bb C E) and then you can choose which to give up for your top 5th...or if you want to give up neither, start looking for the 10 string! Very Happy
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Paul McEvoy

 

From:
Baltimore, USA
Post  Posted 22 Jan 2020 2:59 pm    
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I probably haven't put enough thought into this yet but the reason I was thinking about it was this Mike Neer article. I guess I was thinking without the low C I couldn't do some of these slants.

Once I got the high G though I wondered how people did without it.

http://www.lapsteelin.com/2019/04/13/comping-chords-with-c13-tuning-jules-ah-see-tuning-rhythm-changes/
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Paul McEvoy

 

From:
Baltimore, USA
Post  Posted 27 Jan 2020 10:52 am    
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If anyone has any other suggestions I'm all ears. Perhaps a 9 string tuning makes sense but seems like a waste. Would a high a above the g work?
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Nic Neufeld


From:
Kansas City, Missouri
Post  Posted 27 Jan 2020 2:07 pm    
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Forgot to reply to that last comment...yeah, Mike Neer's stuff is something else on those c13 slant exercises, haha, I'm not nearly there yet. I think he'd probably end up coming with all that magic no matter what tuning he ended up picking though Smile

About a high A, boy that'd be high pitched and would have to be fairly light gauge. Other thing to consider, with sixth tunings, you almost never see a sixth at the top...usually root, 5th, or 3rd. A 6th on top above a high 5th would feel a bit of a waste and probably more of a chore to avoid than a help, but I haven't tried it!
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Mike Neer


From:
NJ
Post  Posted 27 Jan 2020 7:01 pm    
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Hi, here are my thoughts on this. I have a 10 string version of this tuning; however, I extend it on the bottom. Still, it screws things up in a way that makes it not as useful to me. I believe limitations will force you to look deeper into finding solutions, and that’s why I like the lower end the way it is and always opt for the 8 string version.

As far as the top end, no high G for me, ever! Even though it would reduce some of the jumping around the neck when I improvise (and the complete major triad on top would work perfectly with my triadic stuff), I absolutely despise the sound of it. I pick quite hard and it just makes it that more apparent. I’ve thought of A6 but I don’t like the range. C13 a la Jules is the most perfect tuning for me at this time. YMMV.

There are other tweaks I use to help me get sounds I need for specific things but it is all based on Jules C13.
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Paul McEvoy

 

From:
Baltimore, USA
Post  Posted 1 Feb 2020 6:26 pm    
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Thanks Mike and Nic

I'd never heard anyone really explain why they didn't use a high G before. I guess I don't play well enough yet that I can percieve the difference and it seems to add a lot of potential for fuller chords. But I'll ponder getting rid of it to give this tuning a try.
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