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Topic: Advantages of Lowering G#'s to G |
Randy Carson
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2020 9:07 am |
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What's advantages to Lowering G#'s to G
Last edited by Randy Carson on 2 Jan 2020 9:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2020 9:40 am
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Glad I could help?
You have an immediate change from whatever major chord you are playing to a minor; for example, G to Gm. That's one example.
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Wakarusa 5e3 clone
1953 Stromberg-Carlson AU-35
Last edited by Rick Abbott on 2 Jan 2020 10:55 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Randy Carson
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2020 9:48 am correction
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| correction I changed my question thanks for the heads up? |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2020 11:02 am
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Minor triads in all the standard no-pedals grips (Em open).
G lower + A pedal gives seventh chords (no root) in standard grips (A7 open). And minor 6th (no fifth) (Em6 open)
Diminished chords in standard grips with G lower + A pedal, voiced differently from nearby F lever diminished
Drop root to 7 from A+B position (release B pedal and press G lower--requires G lower to be on a knee lever) --equivalent to releasing A pedal from A + F position
Slide into 6 minor chord from AB pedal position (e.g. C at fret 3 with A+B, release pedals and slide up to Am with G lower at fret 5)
Same move to bend the fifth up to the sixth from AB position--equivalent to pressing A pedal from no-pedals position |
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Daniel Morris
From:
Westlake, Ohio, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2020 11:54 am
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Also, with Es lowered, engaging the G# to G lever, you get an augmented chord (drops the 5th string 6th note to a #5, so at the 8th fret, you have G+).
If you play U12 (as I do), you can get more chords by, say, adding the 5th pedal. It's one of the changes (I'm told) that would be on the C6 neck, but Brint has given you some good ideas if you're just playing E9.
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amps w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Origin, Eventide, Pigtronix. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 3 Jan 2020 4:53 am
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Disadvantage is the sacrifice of something else...
Last edited by Tom Gorr on 3 Jan 2020 4:44 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2020 7:53 am
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I've never seen an advantage on the 3rd string. You have that note on the 1st string when you need it.
On the 6th string, most people have a lever that lowers it to F#. A tuneable split with the B pedal gives you the G note.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Daniel Morris
From:
Westlake, Ohio, USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2020 9:57 am
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| Quote: |
| I've never seen an advantage on the 3rd string. You have that note on the 1st string when you need it. |
b0b, did you mean if the lower was a whole step, not the half step G# to G? I only play U12 E9/B6, and my 1st string is naturally F#.
Please let me know what you mean.
I lower all 3 G#s to G on my LKV (5th string half step lower is on my LKR), and I like having that change.
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amps w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Origin, Eventide, Pigtronix. |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2020 11:00 am
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As a guitar player also, the G# to G lever puts all of your minor chords right where they would be on the guitar neck, so you can easily access your guitar chord knowledge and apply it on the fly on Pedal Steel.
Play a G Barre Chord at fret 3 on Guitar, then change it to a Gminor. That it what this lever does for Minor chords.
You can now easily play a Harmonized Major Scale.
If we call it the G-lever:
(Pick strings 8,6,5)
G-Am-Bm-C-D-Em-Fdim-G
3-5G-7G-8-10-12G-13F-15
1-2m-3m-4-5-6m-7dim-1 |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2020 12:31 pm
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I've had it on my U12 for about three years now. I sacrificed pedal 4, whole step raise from E to F# which i found redundant (with pedal 3)
What Pete said. Makes a duad scales so easy.
Almost seems like it should be a standard. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2020 12:43 pm
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| Daniel Morris wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I've never seen an advantage on the 3rd string. You have that note on the 1st string when you need it. |
b0b, did you mean if the lower was a whole step, not the half step G# to G? I only play U12 E9/B6, and my 1st string is naturally F#.
Please let me know what you mean.
I lower all 3 G#s to G on my LKV (5th string half step lower is on my LKR), and I like having that change. |
Lowering the 6th string G# to F# is usually on the same lever that raises s1 F# to G/G#. Combined with the B pedal, you have G notes in both octaves.
On your U-12, lowering the low G# to G is a good idea. And if you're doing that, you might as well lower the middle one on the same pedal or lever. So I like your LKV up to a point. But honestly, I've never liked lowering the high s3 G# to G. Instead, I like being able to have G note on s6 and A on s3 for an A7th chord (with the B pedal), with the high G still available on s1.
I hope that makes sense. 
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Daniel Morris
From:
Westlake, Ohio, USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2020 2:44 pm
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NOW it makes sense; I've heard of that change (6th/1st strings), but I went with lowering my G#s to Gs because I wanted that (available) knee lever to have another C6(B6) change. I'd asked Doug Jernigan what he's consider the 2d most important change for a KL on C6, and he suggested either raising my 6th/10th strings a half step, or lowering them a half.
As we all know, no one copedent covers it all, so I went with what I felt might be most useful to me.
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amps w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Origin, Eventide, Pigtronix. |
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Jerry Erickson
From:
Atlanta,IL 61723
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Posted 4 Jan 2020 9:29 am
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| Jimmie Crawford had the G#-G lower on his guitar. He would use that lower in combination with B-Bb lower to get a diminished chord. In the open position, if you add a D note to it, you get an Em7b5 chord, which can also be used as a Gm6 or C9. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 4 Jan 2020 11:19 am
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My G# to G change is on a zero pedal. I mostly use it to get passing tones. Occasionally I use it with the A pedal to get a diminished chord.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 5 Jan 2020 6:55 pm Me too
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I also have the G# to G on my first pedal now and have come to like that change.
Was not so sure when I tried it if I should even bother? It's not needed at all for a minor since we already have 3 easy to get related minor chords on a standard E9th, C#m, G#m & F#m.
Where I find it very handy is in combination with the vertical lever lowering B to Bb giving me a very handy diminished chord.
I also keep my 2nd string at C# (Raised D/Eb by knee lever) but many players have the knee lever that lowers the 2nd string to D/C#, so the same thing there.
With both those you have a nice 4 string diminished on four strings 2, 3, 4 & 5.
I play with three picks so get two possible diminished inversions at the same fret.
Most already know how useful a diminished chord is when transiting from one key to another as well as adding "colorful" changes and as an alternative to a dominant 7th from time to time.
As for use as a minor, it's a handy way to change your major chord to a minor in a smooth way without changing frets. That has a nice sound, but you have the same in AB pedals down if you have the B to Bb lower on a knee. Now you'd have two ways to get it.
The most obvious is doing a chord scale or two string harmony while sliding up or down the neck. I've practiced doing that some, but not found much reason to use it yet.
To sum it up, I'm happy that I gave it a try and plan to keep it for now on my E9th steel.
Thats my 2¢ worth, but free to you!   
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Jacek Jakubek
From:
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 6 Jan 2020 6:26 am
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| I like the G#->G lower for bluesy sounding licks in no pedals position. I call it my "blues pedal" and have it on pedal 4. It's not an essential, but a nice-to-have change. Stomping that high G# down to G during faster passages sounds good to me, very Mooney-like. I also have the high F#->G# change on a vertical lever but it's hard to get the G in the middle, especially without any half-stop. Having the quick, stomp-able G's on a pedal is nice for rock/blues licks. |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 6 Jan 2020 6:51 am I'll try that for blues.
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Thanks Jacek,
I'll try that for blues. Didn't even think of that before!
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Norman Evans
From:
Tennessee
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John Macy
From:
Rockport TX/Denver CO
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Posted 6 Jan 2020 9:39 am
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I have that change on a separate LKL on all my guitars since Jimmie turned me on to it in the 70’s. In addition to all the above, it’s such a beautiful move from a pedals down 1 chord to an open 5m in the same position (think That’s the Way Love Goes). I could never be without it.
_________________
John Macy
Rockport, TX
Engineer/Producer/Steel Guitar |
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Steve Leal
From:
Orange CA, USA
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Posted 7 Jan 2020 3:04 pm
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I lower both G#s to Gs on a knee lever. I like to use it for a cool 9th chord one fret up from open position with A pedal and F lever.
I also use my zero pedal to raise me E’s to F#. So when I am in an open position while lowering Gs (minor chord), I raise Es a whole step to add dissonance or melodic notes. Works in open position (major chord) as well. |
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Karen Sarkisian
From:
Boston, MA, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2020 11:28 am
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my new (to me) shobud has the lower G#->F# on RKR which means I have to engage B pedal to get the minor chord. All my other guitars had G#->G on that lever. its taking a bit to get used to the new set-up, I may change it.
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Emmons PP, Mullen G2 and Discovery |
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Chance Wilson
From:
California, USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2020 1:35 am
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| Think Swinging Doors-If you want to rake or dig in like Moon, you lose something raising 1 to G. A PorK with 6+/3- gets you dirty percussive 7/dim colors on adjacent strings. . |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2020 12:05 pm
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| Dennis Montgomery wrote: |
| I know it's sacrilegious to admit (and has been debated to death in many other threads) but I put the drop G on LKR for my primary position minor in exchange for the historically used BC minor months ago. Haven't missed the good old BC minor... |
I'm right there with you... as can be read in the other threads.
I also often use it with the E-Eb lower for the Augmented Chord mentioned above... Which is the same chord available down one fret using the AB Pedals & F Lever, but to me the intonation is much better (as is the G#-G Lever Minor versus BC Pedals back two frets). |
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