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Author Topic:  Pedal 4, C-6 Question
Vernon N. Holt


From:
Battlefield, MO USA
Post  Posted 7 Nov 2019 7:30 pm    
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Does anyone use pedal 4 anymore? Has it been taken off most new pro-model guitars? Has anyone pu pedal 4 changes on a vertical knee lever?

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scott murray


From:
Asheville, NC
Post  Posted 7 Nov 2019 9:17 pm    
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yes. no. yes.

it would appear most C6 necks still have the standard pedal 4, raising As to B. it would also appear most C6 necks only have 2 knee levers, on the right knee.

I changed my pedal 4 years ago to raise the Es to F. a lot of other guys do a reverse pedal 6. Buddy Emmons himself said "no one was ever quite sure what to do with pedal 4". he also raised his lower E to F with pedal 4 on some of his guitars.

I've been experimenting with the pedal 4 change on a knee lever. I currently raise string 4 to B and lower string 7 to B on my extra RKL.
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Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
Post  Posted 8 Nov 2019 4:15 am    
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For many years (about 29). I had the A to B (p4) changes on a knee lever. I took it off in about 1999. Rarely, if ever, used it.
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Jerry Overstreet


From:
Louisville Ky
Post  Posted 8 Nov 2019 6:02 am    
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My take: Put the commonly called boo-wah pedal 8 over on 4. It's more convenient there for me.

I use the common pedal 4 change on a dedicated CLKL pulled to B with a feel stop at Bb on string 4 only. I like the voicing of the maj7th but leaving string 8 out of the change, although one could put it there too.
The whole tone 4 raise works well with the other pedals on the C neck too.

Over on pedal 8, I lower strings 8 and 9 to G and E respectively so I have majors across all the bottom strings for power chords, vamps and certain single note runs.

I also lower 5 & 10 on the E9th neck a whole tone on pedal 8. Along with lowering 6 a whole tone on rkl, this lets me get the Franklin 5,6,10 lower change. I'm used to leaving the volume pedal to engage P8 with the right foot for that.

Sometimes, I leave lowering 10 a whole tone out of the change and just lower 5 with 6 but I usually have it rodded for both 5 & 10.

The aforementioned reverse pedal 6 is on a separate CLKV which makes 4 knees I use on the C neck.

If one is only going to use the 2 right knees on the rear neck, you just have to decide which changes are the most important to the way you play.

F.I., I once had my C neck 4th string raise on the same LKR that lowers 4 & 8 on the E9th neck before the addition of the 2 other levers.
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Ian Rae


From:
Redditch, England
Post  Posted 8 Nov 2019 7:03 am    
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On a universal, which is what I play, there are not usually enough changes to include P4. However on my Excel (7 up 4 down!) I do have it, but to be honest I seldom use it. In Buddy's C6 course he doesn't even mention it, and uses P7 for everything. It does give an interesting clash/suspension with the string above. Perhaps I'll explore it some more when I have time, but my practice guitar is my Williams and the Excel lives in its case to go.
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Bill C. Buntin


Post  Posted 8 Nov 2019 7:26 am    
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For me, I shifted 5678 to 4567 and was comfortable with that for several years. 1996 - 2004

Most recently I use standard 5678 with pedal 4 dedicated to the e neck. As in Franklin setup.

Having learned c6 from buddy I too did not learn with the standard pedal 4. And as stated above I use pedal 7 as the go to for the maj 7 needs.

A lot of older c6 setups with g note on top, I would imagine still have standard pedal 4, not that it matters much, but I like the d note on top, again is how buddy and Paul both teach it. Works good for me.

Bill
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Rick Schmidt


From:
Prescott AZ, USA
Post  Posted 8 Nov 2019 11:53 am    
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I put mine on a knee lever. ...with a half stop both A’s to Bb & then to B. Among other uses, raising the A’s to B in conjunction with pedal 5 is my first go-to 13th chord
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Daniel Morris


From:
Westlake, Ohio, USA
Post  Posted 10 Nov 2019 12:28 pm    
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U12 player here.
As I have 8 floor pedals and 5 knee levers on all my steels, I have the 4th pedal right next to my C pedal (P4 in 4th position).
I had had it on P8, but found that there are some great chords with P4 + P5 (as well as 5 + 6, 6 + 7, 7 + 8.) I really like raising the 6th string (4th on C6) to the major 7th, while having the root a half step away on the 5th string (3d on C6). Plus P4 also raises the 10th string (8th on C6), unlike P7.
(Lowering my 4 + 8 strings to D# on a knee lever, I also lower string 2 from D# to C#, to give me the C6 equivalent of a top string G and D. I also have the standard B to A# on a knee lever, as well as the vertical that lowers all 3 G#s to G.)
All personal taste, everything has pros and cons.
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Paddy Long


From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
Post  Posted 10 Nov 2019 3:15 pm    
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I don't have any C6th pulls on pedal 4 as it accommodates my Franklin pedal -- so I shifted my whole C6th one step to the right and have a 9th pedal! so Pedal 5 to pedal 9.
Also my Boowah pedal is the first of my C6th setup - it's much more useful and easier to use there ...
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Pete Burak


From:
Portland, OR USA
Post  Posted 10 Nov 2019 3:36 pm    
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What are some songs that you guys do that require the P4 function?
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Ian Rae


From:
Redditch, England
Post  Posted 10 Nov 2019 5:08 pm    
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What Paddy says is perfectly clear if you read it with care, but I hope he will forgive me if I say that "P4" in the context of this thread doesn't necessarily mean the fourth pedal from the left. İt means whatever pedal raises string 4 (and maybe 8) a whole step (6 & 10 on a uni).
It could be anywhere. Positions 4 and 8 are commonest, or 9 like Paddy. Mine's in position 6 as my P6 is on a lever.
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Daniel Morris


From:
Westlake, Ohio, USA
Post  Posted 10 Nov 2019 6:15 pm    
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Pete, I use my P4 in various contexts.
The ending of NAIMA comes immediately to mind, an instrumental I do, as the 10th string (8th on C6) raise is very much a part of the last several bars.
Even on more Americana songs, I find that minor 2d (5th & 6th strings on U12, 3 & 4 on C6) to be quite lovely. It isn't specifically for C6/jazz - it's for what I love, with my 'one big tuning'.
Can one live without it? Certainly.
Would I replace that function with the Franklin pedal?
No.
I prefer that full sounding major 7. And as I stated above, there are great voicings for a 13th chord, or a major 7 flat 5, using P4 + P5 together.
All depends on what you want.
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Milkman 85W PSG and 40W Mini amps w/Telonics 15" speaker.
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Pete Burak


From:
Portland, OR USA
Post  Posted 11 Nov 2019 7:07 am    
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On Universal I use the string 6 whole tone raise of P7 as a sub for P4.
I have P7 on LKR. So if I need the P4 sound, by itself or in conjunction with any other pedal, I rake strings 6-9 and engage P7 for that sound.
If you have both P4 and and P7, you can try that grip and see it sounds the same.

Can anyone think of any songs that you can't play without P4?
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Paddy Long


From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
Post  Posted 11 Nov 2019 11:49 am    
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Further to what Ian said -- I don't have the pedal 4 C6th changes at all - but I do raise and lower the A's a half step with knee levers :-}
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Herb Steiner


From:
Spicewood TX 78669
Post  Posted 11 Nov 2019 12:02 pm    
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I remember Gene O'Neal telling me about his keeping a G note on top with his C6, saying "my hot licks all live with that string on there Wink"

But getting back to p.4 traditional, I use it all the time for chords, melodic expression, and "E9 sounding" licks. And it's not redundent with either k.B-C, or p.7. Like Gene O said, that's where a lot of my licks live.

Bear in mind I've been pretty set in my ways for more than a few decades. I'm sure there are many who have another change on that pedal and are equally set in their ways. Your mileage, and theirs, may vary.

Scroll down to the bottom of page one of this thread from 10 years back, where I discuss how I use the A-B change on p.4.
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rick andrews


From:
Westminster Co 80031
Post  Posted 11 Nov 2019 6:01 pm    
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I don't have it. As a B6th 12 string player I only have a half step raise (the E9th G# to A) change. And I use this everywhere! I find it essential in both tunings.
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Greg Lambert


From:
Illinois, USA
Post  Posted 11 Nov 2019 6:06 pm    
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Pete Burak wrote:
What are some songs that you guys do that require the P4 function?


I use it quite a bit on "The Shadow of your Smile"
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