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Topic: Who uses power conditioner/surge protectors? |
Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 4 Nov 2019 10:35 am |
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I use a Furman, I forget the model, but it is a power conditioner model. When I turn it on, lights go back and forth as it scans the incoming voltage and then adjusts it accordingly.
If it is too far out of wack, it disconnects you before it can do any damage.
It is rack mountable. 
Erv |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 4 Nov 2019 11:12 am
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All a surge protector does is protect against spikes in the line voltage. The power conditioner part of this filters line noise. It also has automatic shutdown if the steady-state voltage gets above 137 VAC. Output capability 10A. Data sheet here - http://resources.corebrands.com/products/AC-215A/pdf_AC-215A_datasheet.pdf
For me, the biggest issues in clubs, old buildings, and so on, are steady-state voltage variations, both time-varying up-and-down and a steady under-voltage, plus to some extent AC voltage waveform distortion. So for the last 20 years plus, I've been using a Furman AR-1215 voltage regulator, which has since been superseded by the Furman Furman M-8X AR. This provides all the usual power conditioning and surge protection features, plus true AC voltage regulation to 120 VAC +- 5 VAC when the incoming voltage is between 97 and 141 VAC. It also has automatic shutdown below 75VAC or above 150VAC. It delivers between 12.5 and 15 amps [edit], depending on the input voltage (lower for low input voltages). Data sheet here - https://www.furmanpower.com/sites/furmanpower.com/files/_/Furman-Pro-AV/ar-1215_datasheet.pdf
I used to use power conditioners; to me, they never really helped significantly when the power was bad enough to notice a serious issue. I've not had a power problem since I got the voltage regulator.
There have been a lot of threads about this over the last 15 years since I've been on here. Here's a recent one - https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=314901 - but if you do a forum search for voltage regulator in the Electronics secion, you'll get a lot of relevant results. One way to avoid the heavy expense of the rack-mounted Furmans is to use a computer voltage regulator, as referenced in that earlier thread I linked. I haven't done it, I ought to go get one, they're cheap enough, I could use one for home use. |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 4 Nov 2019 11:27 am Who uses power conditioner/ surge protector
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I am using this Furman SS-6B. Got it from Prostar Audio for $29.49 inc. shipping. It's not a voltage regulator, only surge protection and power conditioner. The thing that sold me on it is a long 15 foot heavy duty cord to reach stage outlets. An extension cord and surge protector all in one. I also have a Furman rack mount that gives me a constant LED voltage display
Last edited by George Kimery on 7 Nov 2019 12:36 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 4 Nov 2019 12:00 pm
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I use the same model as George Kimery. I replace it at least once a year. No telling if it has taken a surge hit and did its job and is no longer protecting. They are cheap enough (I've found them on sale for $24) and that's a relatively small annual cost.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 4 Nov 2019 12:29 pm Who uses power conditioner/ surge protector
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| Jack, that's interesting. I wonder what Furman would have to say. If that's true, then I may just have a nice extension cord. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 5 Nov 2019 3:08 am
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This is not a high $$$ surge protector. Its a good one but high quality commercial surge protectors run a couple hundred dollars (not a power regulator just surge protectors).
Tests would have to be run to determine if it is still really protecting. For $24 I just replace it. (Also reason I would not buy a used one).
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 5 Nov 2019 3:40 am
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Interesting info Jack. I wonder if people know that a surge protection circuit can only absorb so much and degrade over time and hits to the point where they no longer have the ability to absorb excess voltage.
I sure didn't. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 5 Nov 2019 5:11 am
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Just to clarify, this is just my take after talking to several power engineers and other electronics engineers.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 5 Nov 2019 6:19 pm
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I don't feel power conditioners or surge protectors are really necessary for all-tube amplifiers. For solid state amps, a power conditioner could prove useful, especially to reduce distortion when the voltage drops significantly (more than 10 v.) and the amp has some age. Surge suppressors claim to prevent damage. But the most common damage comes from lightning strikes, and the only thing that will really protect against that would be to have the equipment unplugged.  |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Larry Carlson
From:
My Computer
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Posted 5 Nov 2019 6:28 pm
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I use a battery backup/surge protector (CyberPower CP1500AVRLCD) and have my computer, amp, Roland CR55, pedal board etc. plugged in to it.
If I lose power it keeps things running until I can shut them all down.
If I get a surge it protects everything.
If I have lower power it adjusts and notifies me.
I have had this one, and an older model it replaced for 5 years and have had no disasters.
Yet.
_________________
I have stuff.
I try to make music with it.
Sometimes it works.
Sometimes it doesn't.
But I keep on trying. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 6 Nov 2019 2:53 am
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Surge suppressors claim to prevent damage. But the most common damage comes from lightning strikes, and the only thing that will really protect against that would be to have the equipment unplugged. |
Correct, but impractical in most settings, so as the next best thing…
Haven't looked for them, but I am sure one can have "heavy duty" surge suppressors installed in the fuse boxes in the US too, somewhat like the ones I have installed at home in Norway. They do blow after having done their job, but they have a "marker" that show their condition and the user can clip them out and replace them – easier than replacing an old-type fuse. Don't cost much more than a fuse either.
Last lightning shock at home (last winter) left sootmarks on the valls near the intake, and a blown surge suppressor out of three in a three-phase installation. However, no electronic or other electric equipment in the buildings was damaged, and I have to have plenty of electronics turned on all the time so disconnecting any is not really an option.
Other than that; I prefer saturation transformers in line with the most sensitive equipment when possible. They can handle all but direct lightning-strikes and at the same time stabilize the mains-Voltage, but such units are heavy and not something I'd like to drag along with my amps.
Those cheap (usually Varistor-based) surge suppressors mentioned above are a simple way to add "some" protection, as long as they are replaced whenever there is the slightest chance that they have already done their job, as – as mentioned – most of them only work once. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 6 Nov 2019 4:50 am
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Is there any way to home test a surge suppresor to see if it has failed? I also use one of the Furman units pictured above.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Travis Wilson
From:
Johnson City, TX
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Posted 6 Nov 2019 5:06 am
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| When buying a power conditioner, carefully read the specs. The cheap Furmans they carry at Guitar Center only have one conditioned outlet. They’re basically rack mounted power strips. |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 6 Nov 2019 3:01 pm
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Perhaps Georg alluded to one but if cleaning up an AC signal, a surge protector won't do anything other than clean out or block the spikes.
An isolation transformer is what will isolate the AC from the dirt on the line.
As Georg stated the transformer is going to be heavy.
And expensive.
A voltage regulator (AVR) will tend to balance the level of the AC but they can add noise to the signal in exchange.
Voltage will fluctuate no matter.
The device below (surplus) works well, is sort of expensive and is as heavy as a floor safe.
Isolation transformer
Here's something low cost for hi-end audio. Tripp-Lite's been around for a long time.
The above starts off at $150
https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Isolation-Transformer-Outlet/dp/B00006HPFH
_________________
ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 6 Nov 2019 4:13 pm
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For completeness I'll add link to a good page on what I call "saturation transformers" – also known by other "names"…
http://voltage-disturbance.com/power-engineering/ferroresonant-transformer/
I have a 650VA/230V ST-variant. It isn't big but it weighs a bit more than an NV112 amp, "roars" (hums) audibly as/when it get exposed to mains noise and spikes, as it turns a wide Voltage range into perfectly clean AC at the Voltage it is designed for (225 Volt / 50 Hz in my case). It is the only type of regulator and "surge protection" I really trust, and I have used it for decades.
An essential piece of equipment to keep my array of computers and CAD/CAM-setups safe from lightnings and whatever disturbances the mains may carry, but I would not carry it around with me between venues. Others may see it different depending on what they have that needs mains conditioning and protection. |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 6 Nov 2019 5:17 pm Who uses power conditioner/ surge protector
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| For all practical purposes, are we running without being chased? I know it's possible for a lightning strike to run in on our gear, but what are the chances of it happening and getting past the switchbox. I have been playing about 60 years in all sorts of conditions. I never used any surge protectors on the job or at home and have never had any power problems damage my gear. I never used anything except a power strip or an extension cord. A year or so ago, I went to a rack system with a power surge/conditioner rack mounted. Everything plugged into it. Then I got a combo amp and bought a surge protector for it. My main amp is an Evans rack mount stereo pre-amp plugged into a Stereo Steel rack mount combo. These two plug into the rack mount surge protector, which in turn, plugs into my outboard surge protector. A voltage strike has to go through two surge protectors to get to my main rig. I may not have any protection at all. but based on my 60 years without a surge protector, I am not going to worry about it now. |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 6 Nov 2019 6:44 pm Re: Who uses power conditioner/ surge protector
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| George Kimery wrote: |
| but based on my 60 years without a surge protector, I am not going to worry about it now. |
We've had this discussion before on surge protectors.
In this hour of the Earth's history, a lot more people and live stock are getting killed by lightning. So I wouldn't rely on a nano second of cosmic time (60 years) as a gauge of things being copacetic.
There is way more lightning incidents than there has been since we were all running around the playground.
Here's what happened the 17th day of May 2017 in Mo.
Surge protectors are not all created equal. Some of them are a big box with a mini-Tootsie-roll cap in there.
Lots of fires happening with some of these devices, class action law suits arising even among units that appear to be safe.
Look for a surge protector with a "UL 1449" label that shows it is listed as a surge protector device and isn't just a power strip extension cord.
If you're in a lightning prone area, might want to investigate this.
But do note that lightning which might be more of sparks created by cosmic forces like the Sun's magnetic field, not the ordinary lightning that happens between thunder cloud causes, is more prevalent these days.
An EMP is known to come off a strong enough lightning strike.
There are devices being sold these days for military use.
This will protect the entire home through your breaker box.
Not cheap but then weigh the price of this vs replacing most of the appliances in your home should it be hit.
The grid won't be protected but your house will.
It's about 3"x5" and the device monitors rise in voltage and shunts it to ground through a ground rod.
It will protect against lightning, EMP, whether solar or man-made.
Worth checking out. It's listed by the DHS.
_________________
ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 7 Nov 2019 3:19 am
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Murphy's Law has to be accounted for. Thus some type of power protection is good sense. A small price for a "good quality" surge protector. Solid state amps and effects processors are more susceptible to power issues and should be accounted for.
I've seen what AC power problems can cause. Before retiring I was a regional LAN/WAN Network Manager for SSA. I had all the SSA offices west of the Mississippi to the Rockies. SSA offices were in many commercial buildings, some very old, some new. AC power and power line issues were a constant battle. I've seen commercial quality (High $$) surge protectors do their job many times over the years.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit |
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Susan Alcorn
From:
Baltimore, MD, USA
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Posted 7 Nov 2019 7:38 am
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As someone who has always suffered from noise and hum issues (whether solid state or tube), and who has bought all kinds of de-humming devices (which never worked), often to the point that it was interfering with gigs (hum and buzz are much more noticeable when playing solo or duet) and with recording sessions where the engineers would have to use noise suppression software on my tracks, earlier this year I decided to spend a significant sum (significant to me, at least) on some power conditioners - I bought the Furman SS-6B for gigs and the PST8 8-Outlet Surge Protector for gigs, and just like that [knock on wood] my noise and hum problems went away.
And for the issue of lightning, there is always the possibility of lightning strikes (here in the mid-Atlantic we're getting more powerful storms these days including snow storms with lightning - climate change). Many years ago I was playing at a nightclub in Abilene, TX when lightning struck the bar - all their cash registers went out, and on the bandstand, I could see a little spark between the singer and his mic. The power spike went into my beloved Session 400 and completely fried it - even the speaker wires had turned to dust. My surge protector has already done its job once since I bought it five months ago.
I'm now a big believer in these things.
_________________
www.susanalcorn.net
"So this is how you swim inward. So this is how you flow outwards. So this is how you pray."
- Mary Oliver |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 7 Nov 2019 8:11 am
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I bought a Furman SS-6B yesterday.
It might not be the best surge protector but I like the convenience of the 15' cord.
Erv |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 7 Nov 2019 8:55 am Who uses power conditioner/ surge protector
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| Erv, another little thing you will like is the Furman is designed for wallwarts, unlike a normal power strip. They have extra room for the wallwarts. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 7 Nov 2019 9:02 am
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George,
Yes, it looked like a pretty handy deal.
Erv |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 7 Nov 2019 12:41 pm Who uses power conditioner/ surge protector
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| Erv, assuming the power cord on your rack mount protector is normal length and too short to reach back wall outlets, you will be able to do like me. Use the SS6-B as a power strip and have double protection. |
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