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Author Topic:  MSA problem
David Nugent

 

From:
Gum Spring, Va.
Post  Posted 23 Oct 2019 3:48 am    
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Having a problem with my 1974 MSA Classic. The left knee lever left which has the bracket mounted directly onto a cross rod, has a tendency to slip due to the round shape of the rod. Have tightened the set screw as much as possible but knee lever will still eventually move out of position when engaged. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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George McLellan


From:
Duluth, MN USA
Post  Posted 23 Oct 2019 4:06 am     Loc tite
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I had the same problem with the S10 4x5 knee levers. A friend of mine was a machinist and suggested “loc tite”. It worked for me. Unfortunately, that steel was stolen and never recovered.
Geo
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Bob Carlucci

 

From:
Candor, New York, USA
Post  Posted 23 Oct 2019 4:36 am    
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I have owned and played a bunch of MSA Classic guitars, and have seen that problem on only one of them.. The "clamp" that the levers are mounted to will stop holding tight enough once they have started slipping,, Metal will get galled on the shaft and on the clamp... I would see if Micheal Yahl at PSGParts has the cross shaft and lever clamps, and replace them.. I believe he does.

Also, before buying new parts, you can try green Loctite on the cross shaft and clamp.. I would not use it on the allen screw on the clamp. Just a bit where the clamp goes around the shaft, That should work. On Msa classic steels, you need to be careful about how hard you hit the knees as well.. Due to the design, they CAN move. As a young player I could move them on occasion when I got to playing hard.. once I became more experienced, I learned to "feel" where the lever wanted to stop, and no longer had a tendency to "push past" it... Not saying you are doing that, just something to keep in mind..... bob
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Larry Phleger

 

From:
DuBois, PA
Post  Posted 23 Oct 2019 5:33 am    
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I would try this. Position the lever in the proper place on the cross shaft. Using a sharpie, mark the spot on the cross shaft where the set screw makes contact with the shaft when the lever is in position. Move the lever to one side and file a flat spot on the cross shaft where the set screw made contact when the lever was in position. Return the lever to the desired position, and tighten the set screw against the flat spot you filed. This should keep the lever from slipping. A word of caution. Place a towel under the area wou are working on to keep the filings away from other parts of the mechanism.
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Dick Wood


From:
Springtown Texas, USA
Post  Posted 23 Oct 2019 5:35 am    
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You could grind a small flat where the set screw contacts the shaft and that should stop it from trying to rotate around the shaft.
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Dennis Detweiler


From:
Solon, Iowa, US
Post  Posted 23 Oct 2019 6:16 am    
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Take the bracket off of the shaft, remove the cap screw, mount the bracket in a vise and use a hack saw to widen the gap. This will allow space for the cap screw to tighten the bracket around the shaft a little more. I've used this fix a couple of times.
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1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation Preamp, TC Electronic M-350 Processor, Crown XLS 1002 Stereo Rack Head, 15" Eminence EPS-15C, ShoBud Pedal, 1949 Epiphone D-8. And, too much extra gear.
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Michael Yahl


From:
Troy, Texas!
Post  Posted 23 Oct 2019 6:32 am    
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Unfortunately, there is no set screw that contacts the cross shaft so a flat would have no effect.

Often the knee lever brackets were simply drilled and were often slightly oversize on the hole. When the clamping screw is tightened the hole doesn't make contact all of the way around the circumference of the shaft thus reducing the holding power. I made this mistake on some of the first knee lever clamps that I made and had customers tell me they were slipping.

The other thing is that the original OEM knee lever clamps had a square inside corner cut adjacent to where the clamping screw is. This allows that top portion of the clamp to deform as the screw is tightened and deforms the hole.

I corrected these faults by reaming the hole to exact size so that there is only about .000-.001" clearance between the shaft and the hole. More often than not my clamps must be pried open slightly to even get them on the shaft which in turn provides almost 360° contact with the shaft.

I also incorporated a large radius in the corner near the top of the clamping screw thereby adding considerable strength to the clamping action.

Not had any other complaints since other than they were too tight to go on the shaft (pry them open slightly).

A quick fix would be to cut down a piece of 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper and slip it into the space between the clamp and the shaft.
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"Don't fergit to kiss yer horse!"
'72 Sho-Bud Professional D10, (in pieces .....), '78 MSA Classic XL D10, '74 MSA Classic D12, Fender 2000
Peavey Session 500 BW, Crate Digital Modeling Amp

PSG PARTS
http://www.psgparts.com/
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Jim Palenscar

 

From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
Post  Posted 23 Oct 2019 7:32 am    
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It has been my experience that over time there are occasions that the aluminum stretches and the screw can no longer tighten the clamping that is needed. You can verify that by looking at the slot in the lever base- if no slot is left and the 2 surfaces are in contact with each other the screw can no longer do its job. The safest way to go is to replace it although you can widen the slot with a hack saw or band saw and allow it to compress further (remove the screw 1st). Sometimes the base will now break or sometimes it will hold. In that you have to disassemble the mechanism to do either replacing the base is the fastest. I have these in stock if my friend Michael does not.
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Michael Yahl


From:
Troy, Texas!
Post  Posted 23 Oct 2019 7:41 am    
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Yeah, what Pally said too. I forgot to mention that part about breaking. Guaranteed to break in the middle of a set!

Replacement https://psgparts.com/Bracket-Lever-Knee-Shaft-02-054.htm
_________________
"Don't fergit to kiss yer horse!"
'72 Sho-Bud Professional D10, (in pieces .....), '78 MSA Classic XL D10, '74 MSA Classic D12, Fender 2000
Peavey Session 500 BW, Crate Digital Modeling Amp

PSG PARTS
http://www.psgparts.com/
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David Nugent

 

From:
Gum Spring, Va.
Post  Posted 23 Oct 2019 10:21 am    
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Thank you to everyone for the helpful hints. Plan to try the Loctite solution first but if no positive results are obtained, will then be contacting Michael or Jim for a replacement part..Thanks again to all, very much appreciated.
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Bob Carlucci

 

From:
Candor, New York, USA
Post  Posted 23 Oct 2019 11:51 am    
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David Nugent wrote:
Thank you to everyone for the helpful hints. Plan to try the Loctite solution first but if no positive results are obtained, will then be contacting Michael or Jim for a replacement part..Thanks again to all, very much appreciated.

Just remember, Loctite is really good stuff, but it can't take the place of missing or stretched metal.. A lot depends on how many times that clamp has slipped. You can take some material away from the clamp flat surfaces so it will hold tighter as Jim has stated, but I dunno, Mike's re engineered parts sound like the hot setup, they are purposefully designed to NOT slip. Try the Loctite, clamp it down tight, if it doesn't work, get the right parts from Mike. His steel guitar stuff is ALWAYS good. He has redesigned many pedal steel parts to eliminate common issues that occur with factory parts.. bob
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I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!

no gear list for me.. you don't have the time......
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Charley Bond


From:
Inola, OK, USA
Post  Posted 23 Oct 2019 1:55 pm     bellcrank slipping on the round shafts
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I have fixed the problem. I had a bellcrank, that slipped , so I replaced the shaft with a Keyed shaft & reworked the bellcrank, to accept a set screw... Done Deal...
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