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Topic: PBS Country Music Special |
Brooks Montgomery
From:
Idaho, USA
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Posted 9 Oct 2019 11:30 am |
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Regardless of whether Burns covered the proper personnel, or the right instruments, or had it “rightâ€, I predict his documentary will be good for live music and for the musicians that play it.
On a microcosm scale, Last night at our local live music saloon, I sat in with the local musicians that I always play with. We did a Merle Haggard tune, and at break, a young local lad came up to me, was eyeing my gear and the others drums, guitars and such, and he said “thanks so much for playing, that was great. I really wanted to get up close and watch you guys, but didn’t want to be a pest. (Laughs). Then he said, “ you see that documentary “Country Musicâ€? It is so cool. I didn’t know all that stuff about Merle Haggard in prison and Johnny Cash playing there.....â€
and as he was going on a friend walked by and overheard him, and they walked off and talked about Burn’s documentary, and I slithered off to get a vodka before our next set started.
Point being—he came to the bar last night, inspired by “Country Music†and he especially wanted to check out what we did on stage.
Gotta be a good thing.
_________________
A banjo, like a pet monkey, seems like a good idea at first. |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 9 Oct 2019 12:14 pm
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| Brooks Montgomery wrote: |
Regardless of whether Burns covered the proper personnel, or the right instruments, or had it “rightâ€, I predict his documentary will be good for live music and for the musicians that play it.
On a microcosm scale, Last night at our local live music saloon, I sat in with the local musicians that I always play with. We did a Merle Haggard tune, and at break, a young local lad came up to me, was eyeing my gear and the others drums, guitars and such, and he said “thanks so much for playing, that was great. I really wanted to get up close and watch you guys, but didn’t want to be a pest. (Laughs). Then he said, “ you see that documentary “Country Musicâ€? It is so cool. I didn’t know all that stuff about Merle Haggard in prison and Johnny Cash playing there.....â€
and as he was going on a friend walked by and overheard him, and they walked off and talked about Burn’s documentary, and I slithered off to get a vodka before our next set started.
Point being—he came to the bar last night, inspired by “Country Music†and he especially wanted to check out what we did on stage.
Gotta be a good thing. |
A fellow steeler/fiddler who I jam with told me the same thing. He likes to go to a weekly bluegrass jam at a local bar and said that since the documentary they've started playing a number of country songs. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 9 Oct 2019 12:20 pm
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| Good share, Brooks. I mentioned a similar sentiment to my band mates recently. If the show does spawn a country revival, I am confident it won’t be of the Urban Cowboy variety. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 9 Oct 2019 12:35 pm
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According to O'Connor, there were a lot of omissions.
I think it's fair to say that politics can't quite be separated from the music industry.
Such a situation would have to be accommodated by Burns, and certainly O'Connor knows more. However, I don't think the special would create other than new interest.
_________________
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 9 Oct 2019 4:13 pm
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| b0b wrote: |
I guess you're right that it's semantics, Donny. None of the songs you listed sound like rock music to me. I mean, isn't a guitar an essential ingredient? All of those songs are just synths with auto-tuned vocals. No stringed instruments - not even real drums. I can't call any of it "rock". But if you want to call it "rock", and if you want to call their country charts "country", then I suppose you're right that "The two major forms of mainstream music now are rock and country".
They just don't sound like that to me.  |
b0b, I'm far to unimportant, musically insignificant, and incompetent for my opinion to mean anything in the grand scheme of things. If I got my way, a lot of things would be different, but that will never happen. It's sad that the only designation and music style/genre that hasn't changed is classical. Rock isn't rock anymore, country isn't country, bluegrass isn't bluegrass, folk isn't folk, jazz isn't jazz...etc., etc.
Even rap music (which had such a deservedly trashy reputation) got "reclassified" and renamed as a type of "urban" music. I guess, to supposedly relieve it of the stigma that it's lyrics spewed across the airwaves.
Crap is crap. What it's called by the powers-to-be isn't nearly as important.  |
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Don R Brown
From:
Rochester, New York, USA
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Posted 10 Oct 2019 5:09 am
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I'll repeat what I have said before - I'm into OPCM. That's "Old People's Country Music". I can just imagine the various writers and music critics latching on to THAT "category" 
_________________
Many play better than I do. Nobody has more fun. |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 10 Oct 2019 5:24 am
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OPCM soundsa little more elegant, Don 
Never really liked "Americana" I don't know why. Like P.Townshend didn't like Led Zeppelin.
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 10 Oct 2019 7:14 am
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I like the title: "Classic Country". 
Erv |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 11 Oct 2019 10:14 am
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| Quote: |
| Never really liked "Americana" I don't know why. Like P.Townshend didn't like Led Zeppelin. |
Because it keeps getting misrepresented as "country" music? |
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Bill Fisher
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 11 Oct 2019 12:55 pm
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I like "Hillbilly" music.
Bill |
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Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 13 Oct 2019 9:13 am
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Seems like we have a case of "misheard song lyrics" with Haggard’s "Are The Good Times Really Over"…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Etj8XmpEls
VERSE 2
Before The Beatles and 'Yesterday'
When a man could still work, still would…
VERSE 5
Before microwave ovens
When a girl could still cook and still would…
- Dave |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 13 Oct 2019 9:50 am
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| Dave Magram wrote: |
Seems like we have a case of "misheard song lyrics" with Haggard’s "Are The Good Times Really Over"…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Etj8XmpEls
VERSE 2
Before The Beatles and 'Yesterday'
When a man could still work, still would…
VERSE 5
Before microwave ovens
When a girl could still cook and still would…
- Dave |
The two words the independent free-thinking woman hears are “girl†and “cookâ€. Somehow I think Merle knew he would rankle a few feathers with that line. The false equivalent in the two lines is pretty blatantly sexist too. Still a great song though. |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 14 Oct 2019 9:31 am
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| Dave Magram wrote: |
Seems like we have a case of "misheard song lyrics" with Haggard’s "Are The Good Times Really Over"…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Etj8XmpEls
VERSE 2
Before The Beatles and 'Yesterday'
When a man could still work, still would…
VERSE 5
Before microwave ovens
When a girl could still cook and still would…
- Dave |
No, I think I heard it as it's meant. Nostalgia for a time when a man's role was to work and a woman's role was to stay home and cook.
I'd be interested to hear what other interpretations there could be of that seemingly (to me) transparent lyric in the context of a song entitled, "Are The Good Times Really Over". |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 14 Oct 2019 11:11 am
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| James Mayer wrote: |
No, I think I heard it as it's meant. Nostalgia for a time when a man's role was to work and a woman's role was to stay home and cook.
I'd be interested to hear what other interpretations there could be of that seemingly (to me) transparent lyric in the context of a song entitled, "Are The Good Times Really Over". |
I agree. This song is a masterclass in nostalgia... and it's very straightforward about it. I see why gender roles are controversial, but taking thoughts and sentiments that everyone knew existed and putting them into a song shouldn't bend people out of shape. I don't think the song crosses over into being propaganda either... nor do I think that's Merle's style. A song coming from a different cultural place shouldn't disqualify it from being a good song. In contrast, think about all the awful songs that are successful simply because they resonate with people's own culture. |
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Dennis Brion
From:
Atwater, Ohio USA
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Posted 14 Oct 2019 11:35 am
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I think that song is from a way different time and is extremely mild compared to lots of today's lyrics. Take into account a lot of today's rap lyrics that call women by all kinds of derogatory names even profane names and descriptions! Merle was quite timid in comparison! Sometime things need to be taken with a grain of salt , considered tounge in cheek comment only.
_________________
1969 Custom built d10, Fender 25R practice amp,Dunlop pedal, Peavy Special 130 w/15" Blackwidow, Gretsch resonator, 41 Gibson 7 string lap steel, Epiphone flat top, 67 Epiphone Olympic |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 14 Oct 2019 11:39 am
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| Curt Trisko wrote: |
I agree. This song is a masterclass in nostalgia... and it's very straightforward about it. I see why gender roles are controversial, but taking thoughts and sentiments that everyone knew existed and putting them into a song shouldn't bend people out of shape. I don't think the song crosses over into being propaganda either... nor do I think that's Merle's style. A song coming from a different cultural place shouldn't disqualify it from being a good song. In contrast, think about all the awful songs that are successful simply because they resonate with people's own culture. |
There's a lot of debate about judging historical figures using current moral standards. 1981, when this song was released, was not that long ago and a time that most of us can remember.
If someone wrote a song in ANY decade that was nostalgic about slavery or Jim Crow that looked longingly back to a time when a white man didn't have to compete with minorities for employment or pay a living wage (or any wage at all) for labor, I'm assuming you would be offended. That may seem like an extreme comparison, but how different is it, really? How many women could have said, "get off your lazy ass and learn to cook" without getting smacked? There were zero protections against domestic abuse until very recently.
The fact that this type of nostalgia is common doesn't make it ok, it just makes it a common problem. It's ironic that people that think this way are usually the ones that bristle at any suggestion that they are privileged and lacking in empathy.
I still think it's a good song.
Last edited by James Mayer on 14 Oct 2019 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 14 Oct 2019 11:41 am
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| Dennis Brion wrote: |
| I think that song is from a way different time and is extremely mild compared to lots of today's lyrics. Take into account a lot of today's rap lyrics that call women by all kinds of derogatory names even profane names and descriptions! Merle was quite timid in comparison! Sometime things need to be taken with a grain of salt , considered tounge in cheek comment only. |
yeah, there are worse examples. I don't like a lot of rap/hip-hop for that reason. It's just different degrees of the same thing. We all draw our line somewhere. |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 14 Oct 2019 11:52 am
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| James Mayer wrote: |
| If someone wrote a song in ANY decade that was nostalgic about slavery or Jim Crow that looked longingly back to a time when a white man didn't have to compete with minorities for employment or pay a living wage (or any wage at all) for labor, I'm assuming you would be offended. That may seem like an extreme comparison, but how different is it, really? How many women could have said, "get off your lazy ass and learn to cook" without getting smacked? There were zero protections against domestic abuse until very recently. |
This is where our line of thinking diverges. I would be offended by a point of view that embraces degrading and exploiting people, but I would be amazed if someone from our generation could write a good song that accurately captures that spirit. That said, I wouldn't like it if that song also glamorized it or promoted it. |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 14 Oct 2019 12:03 pm
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| Curt Trisko wrote: |
| ..... but I would be amazed if someone from our generation could write a good song that accurately captures that spirit. |
That wouldn't be nostalgic. I can read a modern novel from the point of view of someone I consider a villain and not find the novel itself offensive, just the actions of the villain.
| Curt Trisko wrote: |
That said, I wouldn't like it if that song also glamorized it or promoted it.
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Exactly. I don't think we diverged judging by your last sentence above. Maybe we diverged in that I didn't think Merle was being tongue-in-cheek in this particular instance. |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 14 Oct 2019 12:10 pm
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| James Mayer wrote: |
| Maybe we diverged in that I didn't think Merle was being tongue-in-cheek in this particular instance. |
I wouldn't be surprised at all if it wasn't tongue-in-cheek, but that doesn't make a difference to me. That song would be less powerful without the verse about women cooking. If Merle had followed up that verse with another one saying "... like how God intended... I hate it when a woman thinks she shouldn't have to cook", then we'd be beyond the boundaries of good taste. |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 14 Oct 2019 12:26 pm
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| Curt Trisko wrote: |
| James Mayer wrote: |
| Maybe we diverged in that I didn't think Merle was being tongue-in-cheek in this particular instance. |
I wouldn't be surprised at all if it wasn't tongue-in-cheek, but that doesn't make a difference to me. That song would be less powerful without the verse about women cooking. If Merle had followed up that verse with another one saying "... like how God intended... I hate it when a woman thinks she shouldn't have to cook", then we'd be beyond the boundaries of good taste. |
Maybe where we diverge is that sometimes artistic expression can just be artistic expression and doesn't have to justify itself by how it aligns with anyone's social mission. That's not the same as saying that all expression is equal or that there's no such thing as good taste. If expression comes from an ugly place inside and is broadcasted in a dumb way, it's still okay to say that it plain sucks. |
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Don R Brown
From:
Rochester, New York, USA
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Posted 14 Oct 2019 12:41 pm
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Personally, I'm "offended" that people have to find something wrong about almost everything these days. A song says women used to cook for the men, and somehow that's on the same wavelength as endorsing slavery? 
By all means, anybody should be free to turn off and not listen to anything they dislike. I have no desire to tell others what they should think, feel, play, or listen to. But it's a small step for SOME of those type from not listening themselves, to asking radio stations not to play them, thereby imposing their views on me.
Geez, people today are dying all over from drugs - uppers, downers, you name it. Maybe we should turn our backs on "Six Days On The Road" because it speaks of taking little white pills!
_________________
Many play better than I do. Nobody has more fun. |
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Brooks Montgomery
From:
Idaho, USA
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Posted 14 Oct 2019 1:06 pm
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| Don R Brown wrote: |
Personally, I'm "offended" that people have to find something wrong about almost everything these days. A song says women used to cook for the men, and somehow that's on the same wavelength as endorsing slavery?
By all means, anybody should be free to turn off and not listen to anything they dislike. I have no desire to tell others what they should think, feel, play, or listen to. But it's a small step for SOME of those type from not listening themselves, to asking radio stations not to play them, thereby imposing their views on me.
Geez, people today are dying all over from drugs - uppers, downers, you name it. Maybe we should turn our backs on "Six Days On The Road" because it speaks of taking little white pills!
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Hey, Bluegrass isn't bluegrass, unless it's a murder ballad
and some of the murders were probably about cooking dinner. . .
_________________
A banjo, like a pet monkey, seems like a good idea at first. |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 14 Oct 2019 1:39 pm
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| Don R Brown wrote: |
Personally, I'm "offended" that people have to find something wrong about almost everything these days.
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Keep in mind, I have written repeatedly that I like the song (and Merle) but understand how it would annoy my wife. I then explained how I understood where she was coming from. In no way does that make me super offended.
Last edited by James Mayer on 14 Oct 2019 2:21 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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