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Topic: Lowering 4th string a whole step |
James Quillian
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2019 8:10 am |
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I don't doubt that you guys know of occasions where genuine blues is being played on the pedal steel. I will listen to the examples given.
That is good. It is a whole lot easier to copy than to innovate. There is no point in trying to re invent the wheel.
That being said, you guys are the ones making the claim. And, you all have a lot more experience than I do. I listen to a lot of steel and I still haven't heard it.
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Curbside Jimmy's New Act
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C. D. Maclean
From:
Scotland
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Posted 21 Aug 2019 9:12 am
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I agree with bOb that Ext E9 is great for blues. But even on 10 string, adding a half and whole step raise on string 7 with the same lever that drops 2 and use 9 drop for the feel stop turns it into a killer blues machine. It’s on my RKR and supplies all the blue notes you need.
Cheers
Calum |
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James Quillian
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2019 10:05 am
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| James, you can get the same effect by lowering the E with the E lever, then sliding back one fret and adding the B pedal while half-pedaling the A pedal. It takes lots of practice, but it's another way of getting the same M-b7th with the standard setup. It works nicely, and I often use it on slow stuff like "Together Again". But, it would be challenging to do it on anything up-tempo. |
Thanks Donnym I am going to try that right now.
_________________
Curbside Jimmy's New Act
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlzieFLE5no |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2019 10:30 am
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James, one change I used to have on a lever and loved was a staggered left lever raising string 4 to F#, lowering string 8 to D. Easy dom9 chord, plus that string 4 raise is useful in a million other ways, though it's not a very bluesy lick like you want. Brumley relied on it for a lot of stuff, as do I.
As I set up my Rittenberry SD12, that change is coming back!
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James Quillian
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2019 10:31 am
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| James, you can get the same effect by lowering the E with the E lever, then sliding back one fret and adding the B pedal while half-pedaling the A pedal. It takes lots of practice, but it's another way of getting the same M-b7th with the standard setup. It works nicely, and I often use it on slow stuff like "Together Again". But, it would be challenging to do it on anything up-tempo. |
I just tried it. I will overuse that.
_________________
Curbside Jimmy's New Act
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlzieFLE5no |
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James Quillian
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2019 10:50 am
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Here is how real blues sounds.
https://youtu.be/b-Kk4ZB1zxw
This has no steel in it but it is what blues sounds like. I am trying to fit the steel into songs like this.
What I am trying to do is fit the steel into songs like this without experiencing any let down in feeling.
So, far I have never heard a steel add anything to blues played in this style. That isn't a slight against steel players.
Ron Elliot is a master at single note blues runs. A good example is his Peace in the Valley on one of his gospel CDs. So, for that is the best I have found. I haven't had time to check out most of the other players that have been mentioned here.
It may not be a reasonable thing to do but I have some time on my hands so I am trying it.
_________________
Curbside Jimmy's New Act
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlzieFLE5no |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2019 6:35 pm Better Gripping Bars
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| I have a Dunlop with a groove milled into one side for easier pickup for sale for $15.00 if it's of any interest to you. |
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Jacek Jakubek
From:
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 21 Aug 2019 10:07 pm
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James Quillian, that clip you posted is also exactly what I think of when I think "blues." It's mostly using the pentatonic minor scale and adding interesting rhythms/bends/trills/feeling into this scale. The best guys on pedal steel I have heard playing this kind of blues is the sacred steel players, especially Dan Tyack. But, they usesome distortion usually to give the blues a more "singing/screaming" sound. Those guys modify their E9th to sacred steel E9th (research it if you're not familiar with sacred steel e9th setup) putting the sacred steel E9th on your guitar will make you play killer blues. I have this setup on my guitar.
James, also, the reason you have not found a pedal steel player who adds anything to blues played in this style is because YOU are that player who will do it! Seriously, get to working on it. That's actually a great thing that you see a lack of what completely satisfies you. You will go in that direction to satisfy yourself, which is more rewarding than hearing others do it. When I started, I already had satisfaction from Lloyd Green and Ralph Mooney and wanted to play just like that.
Bob Carlucci, I completely agree with sounding like a country steel player faking the blues when pedaling into notes. Funny thing though, that's exactly the direction I want to go! But "faking" sounds a bit negative. How about "a country pedal steel player (who can also play blues,) CHOOSING to pedal into notes to get a country-flavoured blues twang." Sounds better that way. Or, put more simply, a "country-rock" steel player. I came to the same conclusion about pedaling into notes when playing classical music on steel. Pedaling into notes will make you sound kind of "funny" and the classical people won't take your seriously. It's like playing classical Bach on a banjo, the notes ARE there, but they sound "funny." Same with PSG with pedaling. To play classical convincingly, pedaling into notes should be avoided just like you recommend with the blues. Bob, I always enjoy your posts with all the great advice and you are probably being modest about your playing skills. |
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James Quillian
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 22 Aug 2019 4:44 pm
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| Jacek Jakubek wrote: |
James Quillian, that clip you posted is also exactly what I think of when I think "blues." It's mostly using the pentatonic minor scale and adding interesting rhythms/bends/trills/feeling into this scale. The best guys on pedal steel I have heard playing this kind of blues is the sacred steel players, especially Dan Tyack. But, they usesome distortion usually to give the blues a more "singing/screaming" sound. Those guys modify their E9th to sacred steel E9th (research it if you're not familiar with sacred steel e9th setup) putting the sacred steel E9th on your guitar will make you play killer blues. I have this setup on my guitar.
James, also, the reason you have not found a pedal steel player who adds anything to blues played in this style is because YOU are that player who will do it! Seriously, get to working on it. That's actually a great thing that you see a lack of what completely satisfies you. You will go in that direction to satisfy yourself, which is more rewarding than hearing others do it. When I started, I already had satisfaction from Lloyd Green and Ralph Mooney and wanted to play just like that.
Bob Carlucci, I completely agree with sounding like a country steel player faking the blues when pedaling into notes. Funny thing though, that's exactly the direction I want to go! But "faking" sounds a bit negative. How about "a country pedal steel player (who can also play blues,) CHOOSING to pedal into notes to get a country-flavoured blues twang." Sounds better that way. Or, put more simply, a "country-rock" steel player. I came to the same conclusion about pedaling into notes when playing classical music on steel. Pedaling into notes will make you sound kind of "funny" and the classical people won't take your seriously. It's like playing classical Bach on a banjo, the notes ARE there, but they sound "funny." Same with PSG with pedaling. To play classical convincingly, pedaling into notes should be avoided just like you recommend with the blues. Bob, I always enjoy your posts with all the great advice and you are probably being modest about your playing skills. |
Jacek, Dan Tyack is playing genuine blues. That is perfect. I need to learn more about that guy. There is some stuff on Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpKlLA2K32k
I found his codependent from a long time ago, It isn't a lot different. Hearing his licks, I might can make it work without any changes. I am basically a minimalist at heart.I never need to get super fancy. Thanks for the tip.
_________________
Curbside Jimmy's New Act
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlzieFLE5no |
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Jim Robbins
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 22 Aug 2019 7:09 pm
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| Well who can argue with Buddy Guy. You need some unisons in pentatonic pockets which are available in a fairly standard copedent with a string 2 lower to C#/ 5 string A pedal often on same lever as string 9 lower and 10 string A pedal giving the same unison an octave lower. I have 7 string raise which gives another 'bending up' unison with string 6 which is also useful. It's really about phrasing and conviction. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 22 Aug 2019 7:59 pm Dan Tyack Copedent
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Dan Tyack sacrificed his string 9 D to have a low string 10 E. Other than the low E, there's nothing unusual in it. He posted this a long time ago:
| Tab: |
LKL LKV LKR P1 P2 P3 P4 RKL RKR
F# ++G#
D# -D--C# +E
G# +A
E +F ++F# -D#
B -Bb ++C# ++C# --A
G# +A --F#
F# --E
E +F -D -D#
B -Bb ++C# --A
E
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Well, there's the doubling of the middle E on RKR for those fat chords. That's a bit different. All of the other changes are standard E9th stuff.
By the way, the word is copedent, not codependent. 
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Jacek Jakubek
From:
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 22 Aug 2019 11:12 pm
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b0b. that is interesting. I assumed Dan Tyack would be using that sacred steel setup with the two E's beside each other on string 7 and 8. Instead, he lowers the string 7 F# to E with a knee lever.
I love having the unison E's in open and getting the F# with a vertical knee. This was the most important setup change for me. Having that F# made my strummy power chords sound like some sort smooth jazz or lounge music and was very annoying. Also, interesting that Dan doesn't do anything to the low E, no pedals or knees connected to it, what's up with that? Someone please refer him to that other discussion about the low E string for some tips  |
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