Why drop the E's?

Neil Harms · From: Jefferson City, Missouri, USA

I have a 6 pedal 8 string Fender 400 (later style/jag pickup). It is used (by my "little" brother Aaron) primarily for rock and blues style playing with just a dab of country thrown in. The current E9 setup is: (High string is E, then B, G#, F#, E, D, B, E)

Pedal 1: E's to F (exluding the low E)(F lever)

Pedal 2: B's to C# (A Pedal)

Pedal 3: G# to A (B Pedal)

Pedal 4: E's to Eb (exluding the low E)(Eb lever)

Pedal 5: G# to G

Pedal 6: Nothing

Considering dropping the Eb lever. Almost never need that "6" voicing for the type of music being played with this guitar. Considering the following:

Pedal 1: E's to F (exluding the low E)(F lever)

Pedal 2: B's to C# (A Pedal)

Pedal 3: G# to A (B Pedal)

Pedal 4: E to F# and B to C# (C pedal)

Pedal 5: F# to G# (Franklin?)

Pedal 6: G# to G

Also might add the high G# and drop the low E.

So.... Can anyone tell me what else else is being "lost" by not having the dropped E's? Does it make sense to drop Eb lever and add pedal five above (or do you really need the Eb to take advantage of the Pedal 5 change above)? I couldn't make it without the Eb lever on my Sho-Bud but with the limitations of the Fender's changer and it's intended purpose (ie: not so much country), this is starting to seem reasonable.....

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

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76 Sho-Bud LDG, 52 Fender Custom Triple, Fender Vibrasonic "Custom", (plus all that other stuff....)

Bobby Boggs · From: Upstate SC.

I would suggest you drop the low E and add the high G# for sure.And if you're going to play very much country. Lower the E's.Especially since you don't have a high D#.it will just give you more options whatever type music you wish to play.,,,,,bb

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

It's one of the 3 positions for minor chords. At the 1st fret it gives you the Am chord (complete with cool hammer-ons). At the 8th fret it gives you the Em chord.

Also, it's great for rock pentatonic leads in the midrange of the guitar if you can also lower your D string to C#.

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Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog

[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 31 January 2006 at 11:06 AM.]

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Just as the F pedal/lever gives access to a third location for the major triad the Eb allows access to a third location of the minor triad, with all the associated inversions - minors, major 7, major 6, etc.

ESPECIALLY when playing rock and blues I would be lost without the E>Eb drop, although all the uses I have for it would be rather clumsy given the pedal arrangement that you describe. The two most important (to me, anyway) uses would be (1) A+B+Eb (7+9 chord) to F (dominant 7 of the same chord) two frets down, as well as the reverse movement, and (2) A+B (major triad) to B+Eb (which is the dominant 7 of the original A+B triad).

Gotta have every possible way to get that dominant 7 in there if you want to play blues or rock with authority IMHO.

I see that Bobby's Boggs and Lee are faster typists than me (then again maybe they just don't use as many words as I do to say the same thing) and that syncronicity rules, in that we are all thinking along the same lines. I strongly concur with the advice to include the lower E string in the Eb AND F changes.

[This message was edited by Dave Grafe on 31 January 2006 at 11:09 AM.]

Bobby Boggs · From: Upstate SC.

Everything b0b and Dave says is true.However when you become more advanced.Maybe you already are?Anyway I try to avoid playing positions.I try and play thru them and connect them.But both made excellant points.

I think adding the C pedal is a great idea.The position b0b mentioned.

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

You've nothing to fear in that regard, Bobby, actually I type real fast and then I have to go back and fix a lot of mistakes after. The real trick is to say what I mean without using up a whole page of words to do it with...ineveitably somebody else chimes in and says the same thing as me only in six words or less.

Stephen Gambrell · From: Over there

Bobby's not really a slow typist---He's so short, he has to jump up to the keyboard for each letter.
Bobby's so short, he's got a DOWN lever on one of his Emmons.
Bobby's so short, his basement is on the second floor!!!
Bobby's so short, he's got 1" extensions on his pack-a-seat.
Short, man...

Bobby Boggs · From: Upstate SC.

I'm still only 5'9 and 1/2. Like anyone but Steve cares.That worries me a little.

A great contribution to the thread.A Bobbe Seymour your not.But maybe comedy is your strong suit? Why don't you stick to the humor section.Just a thought.

Neil and b0b. I apologies for even responding to this.

Now where were we?? Hum..........Oh, Neil asked advice about his proposed pedal set-up.

[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 31 January 2006 at 07:14 PM.]

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Keep the E lower, and just look for what it does.
There is stuff you're missing.

The only subsitute I find for it in any way
is a B to Bb vertical to use with AB down.
But it ain't the same,
and has some very cool things it can do
besides just that Abm open chord.

Stephen Gambrell · From: Over there

Sorry, Bobby---didn't realize you were gonna get all sensitive

!
Neil, If I were gonna play rock and blues, I'd DEFINITELY keep that E on bottom. That'll give you the "root-5" power chord voicing. Maybe lower that "D" to a C#, as b0b suggested (with that unused pedal, maybe?) and keep the lowered "E", 'cause you'll probably want that minor tone in a blues tune.
Oh, and Bobby? A little spell check next time, OK?

[This message was edited by Stephen Gambrell on 31 January 2006 at 10:37 PM.]

John Poston · From: Albuquerque, NM, USA

I'd tune the whole thing to A6

Neil Harms · From: Jefferson City, Missouri, USA

Thanks everyone for your comments! After a discussion with Little Brother (gotta get him a membership soon), it looks like keeping the Eb move is the right thing to do to maximize access to those minor chords. Along those same lines, the C pedal is in as well. Probably will also go ahead with removing the low E and adding the high G# as well. Since the low E can't be lowered without sacrificing another pedal it seems like it (at least for me) it can't be fully exploited. The high G# seems like it would add lots more usable range to the instrument. Don't know if that makes sense or not but it's been a really long day....

So now the only decision left is which way to use that last pedal. Either keep the G to G# or change it to the F# to G#. Any thoughts there?

Also it looks like even more "two foot" work as it appears the Eb pedal needs to move around to Pedal 6. Guess an experiment is in order. One of the many cool things about this guitar is the ability to change the setup FAST! Gotta love that.

Thanks all so much. N.

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76 Sho-Bud LDG, 52 Fender Custom Triple, Fender Vibrasonic "Custom", (plus all that other stuff....)

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I'd add the high G# if I was going to play country music. For rock the low E is more useful.

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