Anyone else CHANGEABLE minded

Gary Steele · From: Columbus, Ohio, USA

Does anyone else besides me have a hard time figuring out what steel you really think you want. I played a MSA SS D-10 Black Laquer for about 20 years, bought it new in 1979 from Hawkes music in Circleville ohio. I'v heard lots of opinions about MSA guitars over the years about tone of these steels. Did you forget that the tone is in the hands??????????????? most of us know for each setup there is really a sweet spot on the setting for the nicest tone for that system. I'm not the worlds best but i have always searched and tried to get a nice tone. Actually about any steel i get seems to sound pretty good, once i dial it in. Since i sold my SS MSA I'v had so many steels and i'm finally tired of changing. I cant seem to play to suit me by switching so much. Having so many steels for a while was not in my plans. For a few years people would give my number to people a lot locally and around the Country that was looking for a steel and i would sell it. I'm planning on getting another steel and playing and keeping it. Actually i run into a lot of steels and am thinking about selling them but not my personal steel. I do like these buttery smooth steels, like The Zum, Franklin,Etc To name a few. I like the GFI steels also, I'v had two and i think they are great all around steel. I also played a Desert Rose steel and liked it. Now that i have this new Revelation PreAmp that i think is a keeper,I want to get the keeper steel. Wait until you here what more and more of the Major Heavy Hitters is saying about these preamps. I think all the steels today are nice guitars its just kinda what you get used to. I do believe people makes a mistake buying a steel just because a friend plays one. I also want to say that anything i say here does not make me always right and i'm not wanting anything but other opinions and ideas.Its your money and you buy what you want.I'm just saying all this mainly to get a different responses and many ideas and opinions. If i didnt mention your equip or something you like its only because i cant say everything here. Like i say this is just for a discussion. I hope many will respond. So let us here your response. Say anything you want but be nice. I will respond more later. I love to here anything about music and the Steel>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Gary.

[This message was edited by Gary Steele on 22 January 2006 at 08:22 AM.]

Richard Gonzales · From: Davidson, NC USA

I have played a few different steels and learn to be a pretty good technician as they were always in need of repair.
I now own a new MSA Millenium and only play! No more repairs, stays in tune and if I want a different sound it is easy to replace the pickup.
I would imagine most of the newer guitars would give you more up time also.
For me, tone is a moving target. What I like this month may change next month. Also, have you ever noticed when your on an up swing in your playing how the tone improves,Ha,Ha!!

[This message was edited by Richard Gonzales on 22 January 2006 at 09:36 AM.]

Steven Black · From: Gahanna, Ohio, USA

Well Richard, I couldn`t agree with you more, and Gary the tone is in the way you play not in the newer guitars, you can go through as many guitars as you want and still hear the same old sound, a lot of times it is how you tune it in, if you do not temper tune your guitar it will not sound as good as you like, I thought that your GFI sounded really good Gary, you just need to settle in to one brand, for me the prices of new steels are too expensive to be switching all the time, so if I am wanting sound I guess I would have to build my own guitar if I had the time to do it.

Roger Francis · From: kokomo,Indiana, USA

Because this is so much based on opinion, i won't even mention what steel i play, but there are so many nice steels out there and the builders put their hearts in to building them. I wish i had the money, i would buy one of each so i would never get tired of just one steel, but that's just dreaming for me.
My guitar pays for it's self so i don't have a problem switching when i decide i want to try something else. I guess i love the thrill of getting someting new? I don't think there is a perfect steel for everybody but i think everybody hopes or feels they are getting the best for their money.MPO

[This message was edited by Roger Francis on 22 January 2006 at 10:46 AM.]

John De Maille · From: On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.

I don't believe, that,"The steel to end all steels" is out on the market today. And,
I don't think there will ever be one. Or, we would all be beating down the door to get it. And, probably junking all the classic steels with their classic sounds.
Everyone's tastes are different when it comes to sound, playability, and the mechanical endurance of a steel. Almost all of the modern steels are a dream to play and sound really good, even though, many of us still change the original pickups for the elusive tone. Which is still effected by your amp, surroundings, weather and how you play. The basis is to really get a "pro" setup and advance from there. Sometimes you get lucky and find the sound you're looking for. Sadly though, we keep changing in it's elusive search. A lot of steelers settle into playing an older steel, with it's drawbacks, to get that particular sound. Many times they'll have the mechanics updated, so that the steel plays better with less adjustment time. There are so many variables with this instrument, that, I don't think that changing ones' steel or amp rig will ever cease. And, that's kind of what makes it a little interesting or frustrating, depending on how you look at it.I say, try them all and see what suits you. If you don't like what you've got, you can always sell it for the next unending test. Most steels today sell for a pretty good price, so, you shouldn't lose too much money on the transaction. Most resale values are still good, you don't have to be a millionaire to get what you want. I'm not and I'm happy with my rig. "Right Now" !!!!

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Some players sound good and play well on any guitar. Some don't sound good or play well on any.

It's easy to chase your tail buying instruments. Believe me, YOU'LL NEVER CATCH IT.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I think you should just stick with one guitar and learn to play it well. If you have to have multiple guitars, tune them the same. There's nothing worse than switching between 2 slightly different E9th copedents.

The more you switch, the more you have to think about which limb movement will make which change. You should never have to think about that. You should think the musical change, and your body should automatically make the correct move.

You'll never get to that point if you keep switching guitars.

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Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog

Curt Langston · Posted 22 Jan 2006 2:51 pm

Bo Borland · From: South Jersey -

I think b0b is right, all your steels should have the same set up. After 30 years on the same MSA S10 Classic , I am about to get a new D10 axe. I have never had a problem with it. Built like a tank and as reliable as you can get, still, I was never thrilled with the tone of my MSA, but I learned how to get the most out of it. I decided not to buy a "boutique" psg, I love Bud Carters' guitars and after looking at my first Carter up close and seeing how much like my old MSA it is.. how can I go wrong. The big difference is, my axe is a 5&4 with the e raises & lowers on the right knee (Sho Bud style?). Everything is factory original. The new D10 has the E changes on left knee, lkl for the raise ...lkr for the lower..up and down .. I am very comfortable with my old guitar but I can see why the Emmons set up is the standard now, so I am going to try to make the change. Changing old muscle memory may be difficult, but I am pretty sure I can do it.
Look for my MSA in the for sale section, if I did not need to sell one to bankroll the new one, I would never sell it, I still have all my old guitars, this is the first one I have ever sold. But as my grandmother said, "You can't dance at two weddings with one touchas"
If you need a translation .. let me know!
Wish me luck amigos!

[This message was edited by Bo Borland on 22 January 2006 at 05:49 PM.]

[This message was edited by Bo Borland on 22 January 2006 at 05:51 PM.]

Bob Knight · From: Bowling Green KY

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Bo, you should set up your Carter just like your old MSA. There's no real advantage in moving those changes to the left knee, especially after you've been playing with them on the right knee for 30 years.

Think on this for a minute: most people can't use the left vertical lever with their E raises and lowers. There are a lot of musical possibilities in those combinations (F#maj7, Ebm6, etc.).

It's better to build on what you know than to throw it away to learn something new.

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Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog

Ernest Cawby · From: Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

I was set up shobud for 30 years, I just changed to Emmons like most guitars and had no trouble, I picked up the new guitar at 10:00 and played a show at 12:00, never looked back. The 1st hour was a little scary but the next went OK, the guitar was so beautiful I could not take my eyes off it the 1st hour.. I like the change and if someone wants toplay mine it is set up like most.

ernie

ed packard · From: Show Low AZ

When I came back to "music" after being gone for 25 years, I looked for an instrument that was constructed of materials and mechanisms that reflected the approaches used in the industry of which I was a part. The tuning and changes were secondary as I would set them up to my taste (I had not ignored music theory, and had written a chord location program in the 25 years).

The instrument of choice was a SIERRA 12 string uni (in 1980?). It had the EMMONS setup re levers and pedals. That was fine...the only problems with the setup were that R< could not be used with R> to get E9b5...and the F# on L^ did not fit my plans. The later was changed to suit.

I have no problem getting L<, L^, L> with the P1 and/or P2. P1P2 is the gateway to my IV neck = A6. P1P2L^ is A7 as I have it set up. P1P2L^L< is A7#5. P1P2L^L> is A7b5. P1P2R< is Am6. P1P2R is Am6b5 = Dim 7. The s4 structures are via R> so R< (the IV neck minor maker) is appropriately out of the action. L>P2 make the V7 chord, and we wont go thru the other L uses for the V neck, but the combos are not a problem.

None of these moves/combinations are a problem. I did have the L^ lever made longer (left to right) and the L< and L> fitted to my leg movements.

If you are an experimenter, get an instrument that allows easy setup changes, and lever positioning to fit your body motion requirements.

[This message was edited by ed packard on 23 January 2006 at 07:43 AM.]

Gary Preston · From: Columbus, Ohio, USA

My best friend is my Sho~Bud Pro-ll Custom that i bought new in 1977 and it is still the best playing guitar around in my openion .I know it and it seems to know me ( did i just say that? ). I did buy another new guitar a while back and sold it after about two years of trying to get use to it . I agree if you have a ''keeper'' THEN keep it ! G.P.

Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

My Carters take the worry out of playing Psg. Very easy. Just keep The Carters serviced with new strings and a drop of 3-in-1 here and there sometimes and that's it. Peace of mind and trouble free. Service is first class from Carter folks also. What else?

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I too believe the "ultimate" guitar will never be built. ALL the current production guitars are great guitars - and they all have their pluses and minuses.

As far as chaning from a Day to an Emmons or from knee levers in one position to another, that is not really a major hassle. I use the "Emmons" setup but I've played guitars with the "Day" setup and within a couple songs I can get the "hang of it". Like Ernie, my first guitar had 10 floor pedals and 1 custom knee lever (a Fender 2000). When I bought a new Emmons in 1971, it was setup with the "Emmons" knee levers (raise/lower E's on the left leg) and it didn't take much to get used to that. Everyone has their reasons for placing knee levers where they do - no one is "wrong" - just what you personally want.

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