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Topic: Fender amp for steel |
John Boyte
From:
Lake Providence, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 12 May 2019 5:45 am |
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| Hello all! I now officially have my Stage One Zum Encore on order. I have a '69 Fender Super Reverb that the cab is no good. That's ok because I don't want the weight of a 4-10 cab anyway. I am going to have it completely reworked electronically with both channels through reverb and have the Diaz mod to be able to turn vibrato off and gain a little more wattage. I will be using it for guitar but was thinking would it be advisable to have one channel voiced for PSG or would normal voicing be OK? Of course, I know PSG amps are usually higher wattage and this amp would maybe get 45 watts with mod. I don't usually play where a lot of volume is required. I have a Vintage Sound Deluxe Reverb that I guess could be used in parallel with this amp if volume ever was an issue. Also, since I am getting a new cab and have many speaker options available, what would you recommend that would work well for PSG and guitar? Thanks in advance for your advice! |
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J Fletcher
From:
London,Ont,Canada
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Posted 12 May 2019 1:33 pm
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Hi John
Super Rev could be excellent for steel. You will need a 2 ohm speaker load to get the most power , unless you change the output transformer. Jerry |
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John Boyte
From:
Lake Providence, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 12 May 2019 1:40 pm
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| Thx Jerry. They will change the output transformer. Like I said, not going back with 4-10s due to weight. Do you have a preference for speaker size or number since will be for steel or guitar? |
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Derrick Unger
From:
Newark Ohio, USA
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Posted 12 May 2019 2:40 pm speaker
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| I would say your field is wide open...IMHO I think I would try a light-weight 15". |
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Derrick Unger
From:
Newark Ohio, USA
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Posted 12 May 2019 2:41 pm speaker
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| I would say your field is wide open...IMHO I think I would try a light-weight 15". |
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J Fletcher
From:
London,Ont,Canada
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Posted 12 May 2019 3:18 pm
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Well I don't gig much with pedal steel , and when I do , I play play guitar too so my amp has to work with my telecaster as well as my Emmons. A Celestion Vintage 30 works for me , but I would be in a minority with that speaker choice.
There are some 12 and 15's designed for steel guitar that would probably do a nice job for you , with neo magnets so the weight is considerably less than ceramic magnets.
Emminence makes a few models for steel.
Jerry |
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 13 May 2019 3:42 am
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| Since you are having a new cab built and modifying the amp to feature both steel and six string designated channels, why not a 2x12" cab with the speakers separate as well, (one voiced specifically for steel and the other more standard guitar friendly)? |
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John Boyte
From:
Lake Providence, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 13 May 2019 4:52 pm
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| If I understand you what you are saying, there will be the 2 pre-amps but through 1 power amp on the super. I think you were meaning speakers independent of each other? |
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Steve Schmidt
From:
Ramsey, MN, USA
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Posted 13 May 2019 7:39 pm
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| The super reverb is an excellent amp for steel. That is my go to amp these days. I have a single TT12 in mine. That is such an efficient speaker you won't really notice a significant loss in volume. You could always replace the OT if your concerned about the impedance mismatch. It's a great solution. |
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Edward Rhea
From:
Medford Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 14 May 2019 4:04 am
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I love my Fender amps, for steel guitar. I don’t have a Super Reverb, but have played through my father in law’s, and zero complaints from me. His is completely stock and just sings!
_________________
“TONESNOB†|
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Steve Spitz
From:
New Orleans, LA, USA
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Posted 14 May 2019 2:28 pm
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I wouldn’t mess with the amp, it’s collectible. The “ voiced for steel part “ might be a steel friendly 15†speaker with a new baffle board. You could spend alot on modding this amp .
I wouldn’t do anything non reversible . That’s why the baffle board swap might work. I’d save the money and buy a used steel amp, and not destroy your super reverb. |
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 14 May 2019 4:37 pm
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| John..Yes, exactly. |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 14 May 2019 11:40 pm
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| You can pick up a SF twin for 6-8 hundred dollars, split the cabs for weight, and not destroy a classic Super. I like my JBL K-120s - great tone to the bone. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 15 May 2019 5:03 am
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There is no such thing as “voiced for steel “. Please don’t screw up a great amp. The only problem with some amps is that steel pickups have much more output than guitar pickups (this is because they are bigger ) and sometimes will overload the input. This is easy to solve by plugging into the second input on old fender amps.
_________________
Bob |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 18 May 2019 11:20 pm
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| Quote: |
| This is easy to solve by plugging into the second input on old fender amps. |
This is what I had to do in my twin - works great. |
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Benjamin Davidson
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Posted 19 May 2019 4:08 am
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I wouldn't bother trying to voice the Super Reverb anything different than what is was from the factory. These Fenders sounded great in their day and are collectable for a reason. I run my PSG into the 2nd input of my Deluxe Reverb to tame some of the high output of the pickups.
Power at 45 watts isn't that big of an issue, when you consider that most gigs now a days are playing at a lower volume and/or mic'ing the cab.
You've mentioned that you are going away from the 4x10 cab (which if memory serves is a 2 Ohm load on the output transformer), that is the variable we should address. When you determine the speaker configuration that you want, you will need to replace the output transformer to match your intended speaker loading, if required.
The "Vibrato Off" modification I see most do, will have zero effect on output wattage and frequency sweep. D-Lab Electronics on YouTube did a great before and after video de-bunking that modification. |
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Steve Schmidt
From:
Ramsey, MN, USA
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Posted 19 May 2019 4:58 am
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| I pulled my chassis out of my 66 super reverb and built a single 12" cabinet with a 12". I bought a replacement 4/8 ohm output transformer from classic tone. You could always put your original amp back together. The super reverb makes an excellent steel amp. I have since had Mike Skaggs build me his version. I like them both. |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 19 May 2019 6:21 am
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Buy a used Nashville 400 or 112. Cheaper than all that hacking and slashing on a classic Fender amp.
And faster.
_________________
Kevin Maul: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Decophonic, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Michael Deering
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 19 May 2019 7:10 am
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opps
Last edited by Michael Deering on 19 May 2019 7:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Michael Deering
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 19 May 2019 7:11 am
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Keep your eyes open for a old Fender steel amp with the 15" speaker. I picked 1 up this week in new condition for $150. You never know! WOW! Unplugged My 5watt champ amp and into my Rickenbacher and took off!
Another old Fender amp to look out for is the
1980's Fender 75 tube amp. Switchable between 15 or 75 watts, 15" Jensen speaker, clean and lead channel, push pull tone boosters, footswitch to go from clean to lead or reverb on and off. Reverb sounds fantastic. Last of the hand wired Fender amps. |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2022 9:00 am
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Once at band practice I plugged my steel into the guitar player's '66 Super Reverb to try it out. It was like an EF Hutton commercial. Heads turned around, the sound was so amazingly good.
You have to remember that much of the magic of the Super Reverb is in the 4x10 speaker configuration in that cabinet. Maybe you'll find another cab/speaker combination that works, but the stock Super Reverb is a proven winner. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2022 3:10 am
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You can certainly hack up a classic old Super Reverb because "too heavy", but you might be destroying its wonderful tone in doing so.. Change the speaker set up, change the Output Transformer, and you have certainly changed the AMP itself... Keep it intact and play it as is.. the absolute best steel guitar sound I ever got in 46 years of live playing is with a plain old Super Reverb... geez,, If its too big, just get something smaller.
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Fred
From:
Amesbury, MA
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Posted 22 Oct 2022 7:07 am
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I don't think there's any need to revoice the steel channel. If your steel is too hot and it distorts the input or you have to run the volume most of the way down, swap in a 12ay7 for the 7025/12ax7 input on that channel.
I'd probably go with a lightweight 15' speaker unless I wanted it to be a smaller cab. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 22 Oct 2022 8:53 am
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You haven't specified what is wrong with the cabinet. Is it trashed beyond usefulness? Or is it just that you don't want a 4x10" cab?
There is absolutely no reason to hack up the innards of a vintage Super Reverb. A Super Reverb does not need to be 're-voiced' to sound good with pedal steel. They sound great as-is, IMO. And of course, a hacked-up vintage Fender is worth a lot less to the vast majority of people who would buy one.
If you really need to lighten the load, you can take the chassis out and put it into a head cabinet, and then use a 12" or 15" speaker in one or two small cabinets. I would go with 4 Ohm speakers, certainly not a higher impedance - 2 Ohm speakers are definitely a bit hard to find. But that gives you the option for one or two speakers, where two would give you more volume, other things being equal. There are all kinds of choices in speakers. Understand that it will not exactly sound like a Super Reverb anymore - the 4x10" cab is a part of the sound.
As far as distortion goes - my preferred solution is to use a 5751 or 12AY7 for the first preamp tube. The second input may also be used, as it cuts the sensitivity. You may find that with good volume pedal technique, you may not have an issue with a 12AX7 in there.
It is a simple, reversible mod to put reverb on both channels if you want it. The switch to cut out the trem (usually put on the trem intensity pot) has been around for a very long time, and is not specifically due to Diaz. But it is useful to get a bit more push out of the vibrato channel, if you need it. But do you really need it?
I think vintage Super Reverbs are one of the greatest amps ever made. A lot of guitar players wind up using something smaller because they are pretty loud - that 45 Watts into a 4x10" cab can get very loud and clean - especially the silverface versions. So I would not be in too much of a rush to decide you need a lot more power. Sure, if you really work with a loud stage volume, you may need it. There are lots of very reasonably-priced options for real loud and clean - old Peavey pedal steel amps, Quilter Tone Blocks, all in the circa 200 Watt RMS range. They sound good for pedal steel. But to learn on or deal with a lower-volume gig situation? Not needed, IMO. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 22 Oct 2022 4:10 pm
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| John Boyte wrote: |
| ... and have the Diaz mod to be able to turn vibrato off and gain a little more wattage. |
The "Diaz mod" gives more preamp drive, not more wattage, per se. In fact, for pedal steel use, it could induce a lot of distortion, since their pickups are already a lot hotter than regular guitar pickups. The easiest and safest way to get more output is to install a more efficient speaker.  |
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