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Topic: Zing in the strings |
Tom Mossburg
From:
AZ,
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Posted 17 Mar 2019 5:39 pm |
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Got a 2012 MSA uni. Strings 3,4 and 5 a bit, seem to have a rasp or zing in the tone. i.e. if you pick the string and let it ring, it gets these nasty overtones. I moved the string on the bridge finger but still get the zing. Anybody else have this problem? Any solutions?
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MSA Studio Pro U-12 x 2, Telonics |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 17 Mar 2019 6:02 pm Zing in the strings
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Check the nut rollers and slots. Check the nut rollers, remove the axle and nut rollers and make sure the nut rollers are not cocked in the slots, And are rolling smooth.
I had trouble with a zing in a steel that had a powder coated nut roller bridge. Some of the powder coating had made a bump in the 5th string slot. Removed the bump of powder coat with a needle file. No more zing. Good Luck in a quick find and cure. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 18 Mar 2019 7:39 am
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Put just a drop of oil on each nut roller, that might take care of the problem. 
Erv |
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Justin Emmert
From:
Greensboro, NC
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Posted 19 Mar 2019 10:24 am
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| Another little trick I figure out- wind your string under the tuning post, not over top of the tuning post. Gives a bit more contact on the roller. |
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Jeremy Reeves
From:
Chatham, IL, USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2019 10:38 am
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| Justin Emmert wrote: |
| Another little trick I figure out- wind your string under the tuning post, not over top of the tuning post. Gives a bit more contact on the roller. |
i was just gonna ask if this was a good idea! thanks |
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Mitchell Smithey
From:
Dallas, USA
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Posted 20 Mar 2019 9:45 am
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| Hi Tom, Mitchell from MSA here. First thing is to remove the strings, put a little bit of oil between the nut rollers like Erv said, then put a fresh set of strings on. That should take care of it! |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 20 Mar 2019 9:52 am
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Thanks, Mitchell.
Erv |
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 21 Mar 2019 5:51 am
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Don’t overlook the possibility of a bad string or even a bad batch of strings. I had that problem on a .014, changed the string and still had it, finally put another brand on and zing was gone. Also sometimes a string will zing just before it breaks. While the problem is more likely one of the others suggested it could be the string.
Jerry
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http://www.littleoprey.org/ |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 21 Mar 2019 8:22 am
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| Oil between the nut rollers? Or in the groove of the roller itself? |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 21 Mar 2019 8:24 am
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No, don't get any oil on the roller itself, it will dull the tone.
Erv |
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Tom Mossburg
From:
AZ,
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Posted 21 Mar 2019 10:32 am Strings
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Thanks for all the help guys! I had been using George L's but can't get them anymore. I really didn't like the ones I replaced them with. Any suggestions?
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MSA Studio Pro U-12 x 2, Telonics |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 21 Mar 2019 10:36 am
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| ðŸ‘ðŸ‘👠Thanks, Erv! |
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Dick Wood
From:
Springtown Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Mar 2019 10:39 am
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Bill Ferguson sells George L's. I ordered 5 sets a few days ago and got them two days later.
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Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 21 Mar 2019 11:56 am
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Tom,
If I were you, I'd try the Live Steel Strings.
I really like the tone I get from them.
And get the nickel ones.
Erv |
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 21 Mar 2019 12:19 pm
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You can get a bad string from any brand. Would not happen often.
Jerry
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http://www.littleoprey.org/ |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2019 9:25 pm Zing in the strings
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When the wire was made and tempered something went south with tempering.
The string may be work hardening where it is bending over the changer finger. As the string is raised to a higher note by a lever or pedal, The string is hardening in a curve when pulled, Then when the lever or pedal is released the hardened curve is raising the string up off the changer finger ever so little. Once a string starts doing OH NO, The next thing they do is break.
If this is the problem, Changing strings lots may be the only serviceable cure. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 2 May 2019 9:26 am
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Why is the zing is more pronounced when the string is barred, as compared to played open? The sound from my barred 3rd string sounds like a bee buzzing around, but not so much when played open. String 4 and 1 are not quite as bad, but still annoying, especially on a ballad where I want to play something sweet and sustained.
PS: I have changed strings 3 times in the last week, different brands, incl. Jagwires on there now. Did the Ricky Davis 3M pad thing to the changer fingers, oiled between nut rollers & fingers, used 4 different bars...no improvement. |
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Justin Emmert
From:
Greensboro, NC
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Posted 2 May 2019 10:11 am
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| Something else pointed out to me by a pro and former Emmons employee is that fingers are usually made of aluminum, while strings are steel. Steel is harder than aluminum. So, on strings that get a lot of movement (3,4,5) from pedals and they have a smaller diameter, it is possible they can wear a slight groove on the top of the finger. A light sanding of the top of the finger can remove the groove. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 2 May 2019 12:12 pm
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| Justin Emmert wrote: |
| Something else pointed out to me by a pro and former Emmons employee is that fingers are usually made of aluminum, while strings are steel. Steel is harder than aluminum. So, on strings that get a lot of movement (3,4,5) from pedals and they have a smaller diameter, it is possible they can wear a slight groove on the top of the finger. A light sanding of the top of the finger can remove the groove. |
This is what the “Ricky Davis 3M pad thing†refers to. I was advised by the builder of my instrument to avoid sanding the fingers because there is almost no way most people can avoid flattening the tops of them. The 3M pad is probably equivalent to about 1200 grit sandpaper, so it’s almost more like polishing. |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 2 May 2019 12:41 pm
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| Fred Treece wrote: |
PS: I have changed strings 3 times in the last week, different brands, incl. Jagwires on there now. Did the Ricky Davis 3M pad thing to the changer fingers, oiled between nut rollers & fingers, used 4 different bars...no improvement. |
I regularly have zing on my aluminum fingers and lightly sand them with 600 grit wet sandpaper. I'm extremely careful to do it so as to maintain the radius of the finger to avoid a flat spot directly on top. I follow-up with Simichrome metal polish. I have to do this about once a year and it's always fixed the problem, at least temporarily. Nature of the beast. They use aluminum because it has such a nice round tone, but it is quite soft so it's inevitable that the strings will cut grooves over time.
So if you feel like you've tried to reshape the finger to no avail, it's a really long shot here, but it might be overtones in the keyhead (behind the roller nut). Try picking and then reaching over and laying some fingers on the strings in question in the keyhead. A really long shot... but it's free and easy to check it out. Try it both plugged into an amp and then unplugged. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 2 May 2019 2:32 pm
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| Tucker Jackson wrote: |
| I regularly have zing on my aluminum fingers and lightly sand them with 600 grit wet sandpaper. I'm extremely careful to do it so as to maintain the radius of the finger to avoid a flat spot directly on top. |
If I could bother you for a detailed description of your process, I would be very grateful. I understand why maintaining the radius is vital to the success of this operation, and I readily admit that I may not know what the pluck I’m doing. I’d like not to go through a costly trial and error session on my beautiful guitar.
(Been there n done that on checking for overtones. I even have an eraser that fits between strings 3 & 4 to deaden the after-ring. The zing is something different)
Last edited by Fred Treece on 2 May 2019 4:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bill Moore
From:
Manchester, Michigan
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Posted 2 May 2019 4:06 pm
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I have done the sanding process many times on many different guitars to correct this problem. Here is how I do it: Go to a craft store, they sell small sheets of dense foam rubber, get a sheet 1/4" thick. With scissors, cut some strips about 2" long about as wide as the changer fingers you will sand. Get some 600 and 1000 grit wet/dry sandpaper, Harbor Freight sells it. Cut the paper into strips the same size as the foam strips.
Use the 600 grit first. Lay a strip of it on one of the foam strips, try to hold them together only at the ends. Sand the finger following the curve of the top. Don't apply downward pressure, just move the paper backed by the foam, back and forth following the curve as if you were polishing a shoe. Repeat using a strip of 1000 grit. Then put a very small dab of metal polish on top of the finger, take a piece of clean cloth, like from an old T shirt, lay it on the form strip, and polish the same way you did the sanding. That should do it. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 2 May 2019 4:14 pm
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| Thanks, Bill! I will try it and report back. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 2 May 2019 8:06 pm
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Okay. I had some micro-mesh pads from StewMac lying around. The heaviest grit I had was 2400. I figured that would be safe. I cut off a strip to the width of the finger, dabbed some water on it, and went to work on finger #3. It seemed to be working very well. Brushed and wiped off the residue. Then I put a dot of Mother’s metal polish on and buffed it out. I couldn’t believe how smooth and shiny that baby looked. Put a new string on and gave it a pluck and..... beeeeeerrrrrreeeing!!!
Crap. Sounded even worse with a bar on it. And it gets worse the more pressure I put on the bar. Strings 4 and 1 aren’t much better. I guess I have some flat-top changer fingers? I really haven’t put much work into any of them and don’t see how they could be damaged. The guitar is only 2 years old. |
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Charles Kurck
From:
Living in Arkansas but Heaven is home
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