| Visit Our Catalog at SteelGuitarShopper.com |

Post new topic Six Simple Tricks to Jazz Up Your Comping & Solos
Reply to topic
Author Topic:  Six Simple Tricks to Jazz Up Your Comping & Solos
Scott Shewbridge


From:
Bay Area, N. California
Post  Posted 3 Nov 2010 9:29 am    
Reply with quote

I’ve been working on soloing over the Cycle of Dominant Sevenths for playing western swing and came across a nice set of lessons on the Internet:

Tony Oreshko's Jazz Guitar Lessons

I boiled them down to six simple tricks that really “Jazz” up chord progressions and solos (see below). Mr. Oreshko’s website has some nice sound clips to go with his lessons. I found them to be easier to integrate into my thinking than most jazz-type lessons. Highly recommended.

6 Simple Tricks to Jazz Up Your Comping and Soloing

1. Tritone Substitution:

6 frets = 3 whole tones

Example:
C7 tritone substitution = F#7

2. Using a m7b5 Arpeggio over m7b5, dom 7 and m chords:

m7b5 sound- m7b5 over m7b5, use same chord and arpeggio.
9 sound- m7b5 over dom 7, count up 2 steps of the musical alphabet (e.g., G + 2 = B).
m6 sound- m7b5 over m, count down 2 steps of the musical alphabet (e.g., D -2 = B).

Examples:
Chord (Arpeggio to Play) Sound Created
Bm7b5 (Bm7b5) Bm7b5
G7 (Bm7b5) G9
Dm (Bm7b5) Dm6

3. Creating 7b9 Sounds with Diminished 7th Arpeggios:

Diminished 7ths are almost identical to 7b9 chords a semitone up.

Examples:
Chord (Arpeggio to Play) Sound Created
G7 (G#dim) G7b9

4. Passing Notes:

If you have two arpeggio notes on the same string, then play any notes in between them when moving from one arpeggio note to the other. (note - do this intermittently and emphasize the chord tones or it will sound chromatic).

5. Lower Auxiliary Notes:

Before playing each note of the arpeggio, first play the note one fret immediately below it. This extra note is called a lower auxiliary note.

6. Upper Auxiliary Notes:

Upper auxiliary notes are played above the arpeggio notes. Slight complication - one is a semitone (1 fret) higher, and the others are a tone (two frets) higher than the arpeggio note.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jim Cohen


From:
Philadelphia, PA
Post  Posted 3 Nov 2010 9:43 am    
Reply with quote

Thanks, Scott! I look forward to checking these lessons out. Appreciate your shorter summary too.
Jim
_________________

www.JimCohen.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.sunfrog.com/PedalSteelThings/Steel-Guitar
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Ian Kerr


From:
Queensland, Australia
Post  Posted 6 Nov 2010 8:59 pm    
Reply with quote

What a great article.I'm surprised it hasn't drawn more response from steel players , particularly those with a C6 tuning,for it contains the essence of what pedal 5 and pedal 6 does [separately and together] on the C6 tuning.It contains a wealth of information, well set out , and actual examples to try.Perhaps one reason is that the article is written for the standard six string guitar,not the pedal steel.Hence Scott posted it in the MUSIC cetegory.So unfortunately some may have missed the posting.
You would also need some knowledge of six string guitar and your own C6 tuning to tranfer the content from one musical instrument to another. You would also need some enthusiasm from a more jazz like perspective cause I don't think what is being offered is going to help make you play an ordinary old country song much better, but it could be worth a try.
The voicings for altered chords can be found on the C6 neck ,though you would need four picks.I just use three or a rake where necessary.The 3 note GYPSY style chords were interesting.
Anyway Scott, thanks for posting that. I enjoyed it and I hope some others may too.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Roger Miller


From:
Cedar Falls, Ia.
Post  Posted 7 Nov 2010 5:56 am    
Reply with quote

Fabulous Scott. I will be working on some of this, this is written really well. I wish you luck, this is real important info.

Roger
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Earnest Bovine


From:
Los Angeles CA USA
Post  Posted 7 Nov 2010 10:34 am     Six Simple Tricks to keep your gig
Reply with quote

6 Simple Tricks to Keep Your Gig at Wild Bill's Round Up

1. Avoid Tritone Substitution:
2. Avoid Using a m7b5 Arpeggio over m7b5, dom 7 and m chords:
3. Avoid Creating 7b9 Sounds with Diminished 7th Arpeggios:
4. Avoid Passing Notes:
5. Avoid Lower Auxiliary Notes:
6. Avoid Upper Auxiliary Notes:
View user's profile Send private message
Richard Damron


From:
Gallatin, Tennessee, USA (deceased)
Post  Posted 7 Nov 2010 10:35 am    
Reply with quote

Scott -

I am not diminishing the import of your post nor am I ignoring the valuable content of Oreshko's lesson but the fact remains that this sort of thing is to be found all over the 'net with reference to six-string jazz guitar.

I think, perhaps, that it attests to the popularity and acceptance of the six-string thus the large volume of information to be found. I suspect that the mere fact that it does address extended chord forms as applied to the six-string can be somewhat of a turnoff to the steeler - the steeler assuming that the information is not readily applicable. In a sense, this is true. In another, it is not.

You have stated, and quite rightly so, that the lessons to be learned can be valuable to the steeler. Incumbent upon us, therefore, is the necessity of knowing chord construction and their forms on the C6, for example, and ignoring the tab presented for the six-string. Ay, but there's the rub. The "rote" system for learning the PSG - tab, tab, tab - is irretrievably entrenched and has its' advantages but fails when one realizes that the simplest of lessons in chord construction, substitution and simple music theory are almost nonexistent in the PSG learning literature.

Fortunately, for me, I can transfer my six-string knowledge to the PSG with little effort. Such would not be the case for many. There is, however, a bright light or two to be found on the 'net. One:

http://www.mightyfinemusic.com/Jeff/basic_principles.htm

This would be an excellent start - without having to contend with the mental anguish attendent to the six-string presentation. Visit the site and give us your observations.

In addition, a truly excellent reference would be Tom Bradshaw's "Chord Construction On The Pedal Steel Guitar" - IF you can find it. What is notable about Tom's work is that it was copyrighted in 1968 yet, in recent times, there is little, if any, mention of it as published learning material.

Respectfully,

Richard
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Greg Cutshaw


From:
Corry, PA, USA
Post  Posted 7 Nov 2010 11:46 am    
Reply with quote

Thanks Scott! I spent a few hours with this and came up with some great chord vamps. The compact lesson format with examples works great for me.

Greg
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
Scott Shewbridge


From:
Bay Area, N. California
Post  Posted 7 Nov 2010 1:57 pm    
Reply with quote

It's a rainy Sunday afternoon in Northern California, good time to kick it around.

Richard, thanks for the link to the site, I checked out a couple of the lessons, including the cycle of dominant fifths (sevenths?) page. The website looks a bit dated, but if one is smart enough not to judge the book by the cover, Mr. Davis seems to have some good information. I don't know if his tab will copy well here, but I'll try. Seems like a nice bit of information that should help integrate the above with the C6:

1__________________________________________________________________________
2__________________________________________________________________________
3__________________________________________________________________________
4____14R___14_____12R___12___________9_____7R___7______5R__________________
5__________________________________________________________________________
6____14____14(6___12____12(6_________9(6___7____7(6____5___________________
7__________________________________________________________________________
8__________________________________________________________________________
9__________14___________12___________9__________7__________________________
10___14___________12_______________________7___________5___________________

D7 G7 C7 F7 D7 G7 C7 F7
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (Cool

(Bummer it strips out the spaces and puts in funny faces. Oh well, seems appropriate, I'll leave it.)

Richard, you also bring up a very personal and somewhat embarrassing subject for me. My dissappointing lack of progress on the steel guitar.

I was first formally introduced to the pedal steel by Bobbe Seymour at his shop in Nashville about a year and a half ago. He was so nice to me (like everyone I have met in the steel guitar community). After I got home, I checked out his videos and was smitten by his C6 playing, so much so that I started looking for a guitar.

Back home, I found Tom Bradshaw.

Tommy lent me an Emmons and then a beautiful double-neck MSA (weighed a ton) to try. He wanted me to play before buying. When I started, I really liked the C6, but was worried I wasn't going to have enough time in this lifetime to learn two necks. I got one of Tommy's restored Sho-Bud E9s.

Now I find myself not even having enough time to learn the E9, which is a bit dissappointing. I kind of feel like a pedal steel "poser," but what can I say? I love the instrument, I just may never get any good on it.

An observation on tab - Pat Metheny really dislikes it for standard guitar too. He said in a recent Guitar Player article something to the effect that it handicaps the users and they should just learn standard musical notation. I was fortunate enough to learn to read music in school band (playing in band 40 minutes per day for 10+ years has its benefits). I don't completely agree with Mr. Metheny though. I think tab is good and I've learned how to play lots of things quickly with it, though the loss of the "theory" content is a shortcoming. However, from tab, I learned more about playing chords than I ever learned from standard notation. I found that having the m7b5 grip shown to me and getting to use it in a song that I liked (rather than out of context in a lesson), made it much easier to try to figure out the theory stuff later.

Earnest - I love your sense of humor. Beat me, whip me, make me write bad checks.

Glad this "struck a chord" with folks. Hope I can give a fraction of the good stuff I've received from all of you.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Richard Damron


From:
Gallatin, Tennessee, USA (deceased)
Post  Posted 7 Nov 2010 4:02 pm    
Reply with quote

Scott -

You will no doubt recall where we beat to death the subject of "Music Theory and Harmony" not so long ago. I mention this because a lot of "tab" does not include the chord notations. When the notations are present, I have the feeling that many players will not pay it any mind thus not connect the dots when it comes to progressions, extensions, etc..

In the thread mentioned above, there was an overt and adamant reluctance to entertain the subject much less stick one's nose into the many available and free courses offerred on the 'net. This is diametrically opposed to my belief where one should make an attempt to fill in the blanks within one's musical experience and education.

The available instruction for PSG is fragmented, at best, and relies upon the use of "tab" as the basis for instruction. I, personally, would love to see someone put together a modern and comprehensive tome which would make available, in one place, not only the rudiments but the subjects which you have broached. It would afford all of us a leg up when it comes to progressing on the instrument. There will be, of course, those who cannot be bothered with an in-depth study of the instrument and continue to learn tabbed licks 'til the cows come home. I, for one, grew tired of being a "licks" player some time ago.

Sure wish that someone would screw together such a course of study. Would probably shorten up the learning experience for myself and a lot of other folks.

Respectfully,

Richard
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Paul Sutherland


From:
Placerville, California
Post  Posted 11 Nov 2010 5:04 pm    
Reply with quote

Bm7b5 arpeggios, (standard C6th neck with D on top)

2nd fret with #6 pedal: strings 8 thru 3

5th fret with #5 pedal: strings 9 thru 2

7th fret with knee raising 4 a half tone: strings 6, 5, 4, 1 & 2

10 fret with #7 & 8 pedals: strings 9 & 7 thru 4

11th fret with # 5 & 6 pedals and lever raising 4 half tone: strings 7 thru 3 (this one doesn't sound real well in tune on my steel)



A#, E, G, C# Diminished 7 arpeggios,

1st, 4th, 7th and 10 frets with 5 & 6 pedals: strings 8 thru 3



That's all I could find this afternoon. There are probably others. Hope I got it right.

Not sure how to make it musical.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ian Kerr


From:
Queensland, Australia
Post  Posted 12 Nov 2010 12:17 am    
Reply with quote

Here's one example :lesson 4: using tritones to jazz up a blues progression.
C7 pedal 6 fret 7 strings 4,6,9
F7 KL[A to Bb] fret 5 strings 4,6, 10
G7 KL[A TO Bb] fret 7 strings 4,6,10

Tritones
F#7 KL[A to Bb] fret 6 strings 4,6,10
B7 pedal 6 fret 6 strings 4,6,9
C#7 pedal 6 fret 8 strings 4,6,9
[if going G7 to F7 I prefer connecting them using the F#7]
Sorry I don't know how to write this in TAB form,
but I hope you can follow my description.Notice what happens going C7/F#7 in the 1st bar.Only the bass note changes.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Paul Sutherland


From:
Placerville, California
Post  Posted 12 Nov 2010 9:43 am    
Reply with quote

Ian: I had no trouble following your example. Do you have some more? This is great stuff. Playing along with a simple blues track this morning it made a lot of sense. Thanks.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ian Kerr


From:
Queensland, Australia
Post  Posted 12 Nov 2010 4:05 pm    
Reply with quote

The last little exercise in the simple blues sequence was on the chords .ie.all the notes played together.Good for rhymthic practice and comping in the background.
Here is one interpretation of his Lesson 2 from section 2 where he is concentrating on m7b5 arpeggios.[ie notes played from the chord in any order, up to you,and in various rhythms.]This particular one uses the various m7b5 chords over the Dominant 7 chords of C7, F7,G7.
So for C7, use Em7b5, ie. fret 10, pedal 5,strings 2 to 9.
For F7, use Am7b5, ie. fret 12, pedal 6,strings 3 to 8.
For G7 , use Bm7b5, ie fret 14, pedal 6 strings 3 to 8.[or you could drop down to fret 5, pedal 5, strings 2 to 9 for the G7]
At least you should know now that pedals 5 and 6 make these m7b5 chords.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Scott Shewbridge


From:
Bay Area, N. California
Post  Posted 14 Nov 2010 5:16 pm    
Reply with quote

Oh that is super. Thank you Ian.

I've been working on this stuff over Sweet Georgia Brown, playing it in C and G on alternate days, which forces me to learn the song everywhere on my guitar. I like listening to Django's version, but for a real demonstration of differing interpretations, here is a real cool Youtube performance:

Gypsy Jazz and Post-Bebob Hard Jazz - Wynton Marsalis and Friends

The minor phrase the second time through the chorus really helps focus on the minor and diminished aspects of the V7 changes. I especially like the feeling when shifting from V7 to V9 to VIIm7b5 to Imaj7 (e.g., G7, G9, Bm7b5 (played like G9, but with a different bass note) to Cmaj7).

I have a nice band in a box arrangement that I found online that has Benny Goodman's transcribed solo. I also recorded the rhythm tracks to MP3 files. If anyone wants any of them for practicing, send me an email through the forum and I'll send them to you.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ian Kerr


From:
Queensland, Australia
Post  Posted 15 Nov 2010 12:16 am    
Reply with quote

Scott , since you mentioned minor changes and the Dim7 chord over the v7,I thought maybe one more of his lessons might be helpful.Here is one application of his ideas from Jazz Soloing,Lesson 6: Arpeggios over a minor blues [with a Dim7 over the V7.]
Chords Dm Gm A7
For Dm , fret 5 , strings 8,7,6.[D,F,A].If you add in string 5 [C], you have Dm7.Oreshko is suggesting for Dm play Bm7b5,so with pedal 5 at fret 5 you now have strings 9 to 2 to play with.[B,D,F,A,B,D,F,A.].Dm7 has now changed to Dm6.
Gm: To keep the changes close,say you go to fret 7.You don't want the G , you want Gm.So press pedal 6 here.String 6[B]is now Bb.Now you don't want the full C7 chord either , so only play strings 8 up to 3[E,G,Bb,D,E,G] ie.Gm6.
Now for the A7: you need to play A# Dim to get the b9.A is fret 9 , so come up one fret to A# on fret 10
and now press BOTH pedals 5&6 for the Dim7 chord.All strings 3 to 9 are available.Because you're in the Dim. mode now you can move up/down by 3,6, frets.So after the Gm6 on fret 7 you could have stayed there and just added PEDAL 5 .Back home to fret 5 from fret 4 sounds nice.Other options might include working from D6 on fret 2 with pedal 6.It gets confusing with what you can do with just pedals 5 and 6 , separately and together,without even yet considering other pedal /knee levers.Though I can say when you are playing these m7b5 chords using pedals 5 or 6, you can use pedal 4 with pedal 5 and pedal 7 with pedal 6 as these pedals add extra scale notes from the scale these m7b5 chords were made from.The pedals and placement are well thought out and cleverly organised.Have fun.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Josh Yenne


From:
Sonoma California
Post  Posted 2 Apr 2019 4:35 pm     Re: Six Simple Tricks to keep your gig
Reply with quote

Earnest Bovine wrote:
6 Simple Tricks to Keep Your Gig at Wild Bill's Round Up

1. Avoid Tritone Substitution:
2. Avoid Using a m7b5 Arpeggio over m7b5, dom 7 and m chords:
3. Avoid Creating 7b9 Sounds with Diminished 7th Arpeggios:
4. Avoid Passing Notes:
5. Avoid Lower Auxiliary Notes:
6. Avoid Upper Auxiliary Notes:


ha.. randomly ended up on this thread.. and that is a precious post! ha!
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Ian Rae


From:
Redditch, England
Post  Posted 3 Apr 2019 3:23 am    
Reply with quote

That was the bit I found easiest to grasp, I admit
Smile
_________________
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Jim Kennedy


From:
Brentwood California, USA
Post  Posted 3 Apr 2019 6:51 am    
Reply with quote

Tom Bradshaw's book is available on his webite. Just google him. It's free but will take a little copy and pasting to save a copy. Well worth the effort.
_________________
ShoBud Pro 1, 75 Tele, 85 Yamaha SA 2000, Fender Cybertwin,
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Jump to:  
Please review our Forum Rules and Policies
Our Online Catalog
Strings, CDs, instruction, and steel guitar accessories
www.SteelGuitarShopper.com

The Steel Guitar Forum
148 S. Cloverdale Blvd.
Cloverdale, CA 95425 USA

Support This Forum



BIAB Styles
Ray Price Shuffles for Band-in-a-Box
by Jim Baron