| Author |
Topic: I Hate My Half Stop |
Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 22 Mar 2019 4:03 pm |
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| Dennis Detweiler wrote: |
I never liked the feel of the half stop either. I'm trying to conjure up an idea for a left knee moving forward just for the D note. So, I'd have a LKL, LKR LKV and LKF. Just a little gunch forward like messaging a harassing low end itch. I'm currently cleaning and rebuilding an MSA and will let you know what I come up with.
I don't want to give up my other knee co-pedants. |
Get ahold of John McClung. He has a forward pushing knee lever on his Mullen. Strangest thing I have ever seen.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Colin Swinney
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 22 Mar 2019 5:44 pm
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| Thanks for all the replies everyone, I’m thinking I’ll probably just tune it to D and forget the half stop for now. I’ll definitely look through those Lloyd Green tabs Dave suggested first though, maybe I’ll have an epiphany. |
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Tim Sergent
From:
Hendersonville, TN, USA
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Posted 22 Mar 2019 6:00 pm
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Well I have sat behind Terry Bethel's guitars several times and he tunes his 2nd string to D and raises it to D#...I think Weldon did the same thing...and he lowers it on another lever. So I thought why can't I do something similar but keep the D#.
So I came up with something I could live with and not have that fri@@!!ng half stop. Plus it keeps the half tones on one lever and the whole tones on another.
I lower 2&9 a half tone on my LKR and lower 2&6 a whole tone on my RKR. So I can tune them all separately without that @#$%% half stop feel.
Works for me. Hope that might help |
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Rich Peterson
From:
Moorhead, MN
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Posted 23 Mar 2019 8:28 am
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| Zane King has the strings in ascending order rather than re-entrant, but he tunes the string to C#, raises it to D on the B pedal to avoid redundancy, and up to D# on a knee lever. |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2019 9:07 am
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My half-stop is great because the tension is very noticeable when you hit it.
If your steel's stop is created by a something spring-loaded, try tightening that spring if it's adjustable. If it's not adjustable you can remove it, cut off one loop, and bend a new hook in it and reattach.
If stop is created by hitting the 9th string lower start-point, tighten the spring on the 9th string lower (or cut off a loop). |
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Michael Johnstone
From:
Sylmar,Ca. USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2019 8:25 pm
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| I've had that change all my life on various levers on various steels and I finally realized that if you put it on a lever that is actuated by the inner thigh (RKL or LKR) it's easier to feel the half-stop. The other thing I did was borrow a U12 Sierra from Greg Leisz which had the 2nd string tuned to C# and raised to D>D# with a half-stop. It was then I realized how much easier it is to feel a half-stop raise than a half-stop lower. I've done it that way ever since on my Excel. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 26 Mar 2019 10:01 am
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I also hate half stops and don't have any on my guitars. I tune my 2nd string to C# and raise it to D and D# on 2 different knee levers.
Since this requires an extra knee lever, and I don't have an extra knee, I have wrist levers on both guitars.
The wrist lever does not interfere with my picking at all. The only problem is that it gets in the way in the bar when I'm up around the 24th fret.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 26 Mar 2019 12:05 pm
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Raising string 2 from C# to D,D# makes the common modern raise of strings 1+2 F#-G#+Eb-E impossible. Not sure I like that option.
_________________
Kevin Maul: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Decophonic, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2019 7:39 am
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Rich, Mickey Adams is correct I designed a left knee forward lever and had it designed, fabricated, installed by Jim Palenscar.
Made sense on paper and in theory, but I've found it too awkward to use much, and sometimes have to grab the front of the guitar cabinet and pull it towards me to fully activate the LKFwd if I'm not sitting far enough forward.
Works best with a very light pull on a single string. I had it raising 1 and 2 and string 7 on E9. Too much!
My staggered LKL works much better, back one is the main one, D lever working string 2, front one currently raises 1 and 2, but is prone to experimentation.
Wanting more changes, I also tried staggered levers on both sides of the right knee, neither way was good, messed up my volume pedal stability something fierce! Brumley managed it, but I can't seem to.
Only things left to try are a staggered LKR, or a Perlowin wrist lever. Sheesh. I'm trying to learn to live with "just" 5 levers on my Rittenberry SD-12, studying what changes I can best live without. Not easy.
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 27 Mar 2019 11:08 am
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John, you're welcome to visit me and spend a day or two with my wrist lever. If you still lived in L.A. I'd let you borrow one of my guitars for a couple of days.
The wrist lever took some getting used to, but now it does not interfere with my picking hand at all. It does however, get in the way when I get up around the 24th fret.
The last time we met you were playing a Zum. When did you get the Ritt? And how do you like it?
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 27 Mar 2019 2:36 pm
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| John McClung wrote: |
Rich, Mickey Adams is correct I designed a left knee forward lever and had it designed, fabricated, installed by Jim Palenscar.
Made sense on paper and in theory, but I've found it too awkward to use much, and sometimes have to grab the front of the guitar cabinet and pull it towards me to fully activate the LKFwd if I'm not sitting far enough forward.
Works best with a very light pull on a single string. I had it raising 1 and 2 and string 7 on E9. Too much!
My staggered LKL works much better, back one is the main one, D lever working string 2, front one currently raises 1 and 2, but is prone to experimentation.
Wanting more changes, I also tried staggered levers on both sides of the right knee, neither way was good, messed up my volume pedal stability something fierce! Brumley managed it, but I can't seem to.
Only things left to try are a staggered LKR, or a Perlowin wrist lever. Sheesh. I'm trying to learn to live with "just" 5 levers on my Rittenberry SD-12, studying what changes I can best live without. Not easy. |
My lovely wife bought me Mullen Royal Precision SD12, 3p4k. I wanted to get back to basics. I miss my F#'s to G lever Though. I can get the 1st string G by half levering the F# to G#. I still miss the 7th string raise to G though.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 27 Mar 2019 3:44 pm
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It's easy to make the half stop a little more positive to feel, by adjusting the lower return spring a bit - doesn't always work so it depends on what guitar you have.
_________________
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08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
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Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 27 Mar 2019 4:48 pm
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John McClung:
About twenty years ago Jim Aycoth was in charge at the Emmons Co. and he came up with a forward-knee-lever. Brave thinking but difficult to actually utilise in practice.
I persevered with one for a while but never got the hang of it. I don't even care much for 'verticals' so this notion was too much of a challenge.
_________________
Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 27 Mar 2019 5:15 pm
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I don't like feel-stops either, so I don't have any.
One way to get a "switched" half-stop…
… that doesn't rely on feel. It is as solid as a regular stop.
It does rely on having an extra lever to lift the half-stop out of the way, but as the half-stop can rely on gravity alone it doesn't take any force to move.
I use a simplified version of it to get E > F > F# and E > D# > D on my "extended E" modified Dekley, as that steel does not have the regular 7th and 9th strings but instead a lower G# and lower E string…
http://www.gunlaug.no/tos/var/s10tt-88.html |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2019 5:23 pm
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To me, the D is much more useful than the C#. You can always get the C# with a pedal. There's no other way to get the D. I have a solid D on the lever - no half-stop. I get no complaints. It seems that only steel players think that the C# is necessary. There are a handful of old country standards* that require it. If you don't play those songs, you really don't need to lower your 2nd string to C#.
*FWIW, I've heard that "Touch My Heart", the most conspicuous use of the 2nd string C#, was actually done with with the 2nd string lower on pedal 0, to the left of the A pedal.
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 27 Mar 2019 5:35 pm
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I agree with b0b. I want that D note on the fly and I don't want to have to grope for it. My 2nd string is set up to lower to D and C# but I have it wound off so it just gets the D.
I occasionally want that C# but I want the D most of the time. I have no spare lever to dedicate to that C#.
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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Tommy Mc
From:
Middlesex VT
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Posted 28 Mar 2019 5:16 am
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A few years ago, I recall a post where somebody designed a half-stop using a spring loaded ball and detente. I haven't been able to find the post, but it seemed like a good idea. Does anybody else remember seeing that? This is the basic concept, although I don't know the details of how it was mounted.
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 28 Mar 2019 6:56 am
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I actually use both the D and C# about the same. I may put the half stop that Mullen has into my SD12. It currently uses string 9 as the half stop, and when I get the D tuned on string 2, the C# on 9 is a little off.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Posted 28 Mar 2019 1:30 pm
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| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
| I actually use both the D and C# about the same. I may put the half stop that Mullen has into my SD12. It currently uses string 9 as the half stop, and when I get the D tuned on string 2, the C# on 9 is a little off. |
I was able to get all 3 notes tuned acceptably accurate by experimenting with which bellcrank vs changer hole I used for the string 9 rod. I bought the Mullen half stop mechanism anyway and love it. Well worth the $50, especially if you have this change on RKR rather than the inside pull of RKL which I find much easier to feel 
_________________
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Rich Peterson
From:
Moorhead, MN
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Posted 28 Mar 2019 5:14 pm
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| Tommy Mc wrote: |
A few years ago, I recall a post where somebody designed a half-stop using a spring loaded ball and detente. I haven't been able to find the post, but it seemed like a good idea. Does anybody else remember seeing that? This is the basic concept, although I don't know the details of how it was mounted.
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It was on a European steel. WBS? |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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