String Breakage on Excel Superb

Craig Bailey · Posted 15 Mar 2019 7:51 pm

Has anyone experienced an excessive amount of string breakage on 3rd string on Excel Superbs? Mine is the keyless 25.5 inch scale. Not sure what might be causing this. I appreciate any advice or idea.
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Mullen G2, Mullen Discovery, GFI D10 Ultra,
'76 Rosewood Emmons PP, '79 Black Emmons PP
Telonics Amp, Stereo Steel, Fender Vibrasonic & many Telecasters (You can't have too many)

Chris Reesor · From: British Columbia, Canada

Rather the reverse, Craig. Mine has yet to break its first one after seven years.

What are you using, and where are they breaking?
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Excel Superb U12, MIJ Squier tele, modified Deluxe Reverb RI, Cube 80XL, self built acoustics & mandolins

David Ball · From: North Carolina High Country

I haven't had problems with mine either, but here is a thread that discusses ways of fixing this problem: https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=217990

Dave

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

I've had my Excel for over a year now with no breakages. I shall have to change the strings at some point I suppose, but I'm not looking forward to it as it looks complicated. There are some instructions on the Fuzzy website.

The finger design looks kind to strings, with very little bend, although 25.5" is pushing the limit. The original strings are GHS.
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Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

What gauge string are you using?
Try a 12. Very Happy

Erv

Leo Grassl · From: Madison TN

I have heard of the third string breaking on the longer scale Excel Superb models being a farely common issue when using an 11. I was told by an excel owner that using an 11.5, which I believe Jagwire has available, will solve this Issue. It's also a good medium between a 12 and an 11.

Craig Bailey · Posted 17 Mar 2019 4:43 am

Thanks guys for all the replies. My Excel has an 11 gauge 3rd string on it. So maybe if I put an 11.5 or 12 string gauge on it, maybe that will help. I will try it.
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________________
Mullen G2, Mullen Discovery, GFI D10 Ultra,
'76 Rosewood Emmons PP, '79 Black Emmons PP
Telonics Amp, Stereo Steel, Fender Vibrasonic & many Telecasters (You can't have too many)

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Craig,
Besides helping you with string breakage, you also get a richer, fuller tone with a 12. Very Happy

Erv

Craig Bailey · Posted 17 Mar 2019 5:56 am

Thanks Erv. I will order some gauge 12s for the 3rd string this week and see if it helps. Thanks for all the help.
_________________
________________
Mullen G2, Mullen Discovery, GFI D10 Ultra,
'76 Rosewood Emmons PP, '79 Black Emmons PP
Telonics Amp, Stereo Steel, Fender Vibrasonic & many Telecasters (You can't have too many)

John Goux · From: California, USA

I talked to him at the Dallas show about building a guitar. Heâ€™s reluctant to build the 25.5 scale now, and his reason was the G# strings breaking when you put them on, but not once they are up to pitch and playing.
This was contrary to what Iâ€™ve read here on the forum, many folks saying they rarely or never have broken at string on a keyless Excel.
John

Craig Bailey · Posted 21 Mar 2019 10:47 am

Thanks guys for your replies. The issue is the 3rd string keeps immediately breaking at the roller end in the same place every time you touch that B pedal. There must be some issue with the guitar. I just got it used a week ago from a forum member. Cant seem to resolve the issue with it popping 3rd strings.

Craig
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________________
Mullen G2, Mullen Discovery, GFI D10 Ultra,
'76 Rosewood Emmons PP, '79 Black Emmons PP
Telonics Amp, Stereo Steel, Fender Vibrasonic & many Telecasters (You can't have too many)

Craig Bailey · Posted 22 Mar 2019 2:19 am

I have reached out to Mitsuo and am waiting for a reply from him. If the problem cant be solved, then regrettably the guitar may have to be returned to sender which is a bummer.
_________________
________________
Mullen G2, Mullen Discovery, GFI D10 Ultra,
'76 Rosewood Emmons PP, '79 Black Emmons PP
Telonics Amp, Stereo Steel, Fender Vibrasonic & many Telecasters (You can't have too many)

David Ball · From: North Carolina High Country

A couple of things mentioned on an earlier post that run a bit different from what this thread has mentioned, but might be worth trying before you give up.

First, from Richard Burton: Using this string tension calculator a .0115" diameter string, over a 25 1/2" scale length, tuned to A, has a tension of 38 lbs, which is just about at the breaking point of the string.

A 10 thou string at the same pitch and same scale length has about 29 lbs tension

Next from Mike Wheeler: This may be obvious, but it's worth mentioning....With those claw style changers you need to make sure the string isn't being pinched between the claw and the ball end. Positioning can be awkward, but it can be done.

Finally from Mike Addeo, whose breakage problem was apparently solved: Mike, you are spot on with that. I was able to get a GHS .010 pedal steel string tuned up to G# on the third string. I took special care to be sure the string ball was centered and didn't spin. These claws could use a better design to help with that since the slot is a bit too wide. Also I used a needle nose pliers and put good tension on the string before tightening up the screws.

Mike's guitar was breaking strings at the ball end of the string--if your Superb is one of those with the ball end and the keyless tuner on the roller nut side of the guitar, using the .010 reinforced string and being very careful to get the ball centered and straight in the claw might take care of it.

Good luck!

Dave

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

fwiw, Me and many other players played an Excel Superb S12U 8x9 all weekend at the Dallas show, and it never broke a string.
I too would have to get used to changing strings on an Excel, though.
It is one of th brands I am seriously considering because of the 7-raise 4-lower changer.
I would have bought it but it was just a little too different than what I play. I would want to custom order one.
Maybe it will be a good candidate for an Bb6th Uni tuning, considering the string breakage thing.

Mike Vallandigham · From: Martinez, CA

One thing to check is that there is no burr on the inside of the hole where the ball end is retained.

I think that Mitsuo is so good a re-stringing, he doesn't encounter what us un-anointed might.

If you don't pre-stretch the string (mostly the 3rd) it can cause you to have to really lower the tuning block to get it up to pitch. This can create an angle such that the sharp inside corner of the hole (in which you place the ball end) can cut the string right there.

I've taken a small grobbet file and smoothed that edge over on mine.

Also, pre-stretching the string helps, then you don't have to run the tuner down so much.

My 2008 Superb broke 3rds when tuning up before I did this. The real problem was not pre-stretching. I don't think my 2018 model has broken a string yet.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Just curious how cabinet-drop is on your guys Excels?
When connected to a tuner, if you pluck string-4-E and then depress AB together, does the E go flat?
If you pluck string-6-G# and then engage A+F together, does it go flat?
Woud you say it is Normal or Excssive, compared to other brands you may have?

Leo Grassl · From: Madison TN

Craig Bailey · Posted 26 Mar 2019 8:34 pm

Hey guys. Thanks for the reply. I had to send the guitar back to the original owner. I could not get it to stop popping reinforced 3rd strings as soon as you touched the B pedal. I even took it to a great guitar tech in my area who is a dear friend and even he was perplexed. Not sure what the issue is but too complex to try to solve.
_________________
________________
Mullen G2, Mullen Discovery, GFI D10 Ultra,
'76 Rosewood Emmons PP, '79 Black Emmons PP
Telonics Amp, Stereo Steel, Fender Vibrasonic & many Telecasters (You can't have too many)

Mike Vallandigham · From: Martinez, CA

There must be something wrong. It's not a design flaw.

There has be a burr or sharp edge somewhere.

I have a long scale Superb and it's fine, but id have a sharp edge that gave me issues until I rounded it over.

Ken Fox · From: Nashville GA USA

My 1976 MSA used to break thirds a lot. Found a sharp edge at the hole where the string came thru the tuning key. I burnished it up a bit. Have not broke a third in three years now

John Goux · From: California, USA

Peter, to answer your question about cabinet drop on the Excel. I measured he drop on Mike Johnstoneâ€™s 12 string 25.5 scale. It was nominal. About 2 to 3 cents with the AB pedals down.
John

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Thanks, John!
That is what I was hoping to hear!
I am used to 3-4 so no prob.
When I played one in the Excel room in Dallas we were having so much fun I forgot to do that that test.

L. M. English · From: Augusta, GA, USA

I sold the excel that Craig is talking about. I sent a package of reinforced 12's and a note that 11's will not pull up. I got the guitar back, and put the 12 back on it and have played 4 gigs with it and hours at home with no string break.. The string has to be pulled up slowly and stretched as it is pulled. The top locking screw cannot be tightened until the string is played for a while, and then not locked down but snugged up. That screw is the top locking screw, not the string attachment screw. The guitar plays like a dream, and has great tone and sustain. I have decided to keep it. I play it more than my 2018 light weight SD10 Excel.

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