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Author Topic:  E9 Tuning Logic
Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 20 Mar 2019 4:55 pm    
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I have been telling myself since I started playing 2 years ago that E9 is not a “parallel” tuning, and that makes it difficult to internalize the intervals between strings. But I had an epiphany yesterday while engrossed in a practice session, and it has totally changed my attitude.

Strings 10-9-8-7-6 are B-D-E-F#-G#.
Strings 5-4-3-2-1 are B-E-G#-D#-F#. Not exactly a mirror image, right?

But if the top 5 strings are picked 5-2-4-1-3, the notes are B-D#-E-F#-G#. Hmmm...

If string 2 is lowered a half with a lever, strings 5-2-4-1-3 are B-D-E-F#-G#. The same sequence as strings 10-6. Only the picking scheme changes.

The note names/intervals follow the same pattern with AB pedals down, A+E’s raised, or in E’s lowered mode. The C pedal throws things out of sync, but that just makes it a secret weapon...

Okay, so this may not be big news for you guys that have been playing since you were pups. But for me, it was front page headlines film at 11 I’m callin Mom about it.🤠
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Chris Walke

 

From:
St Charles, IL
Post  Posted 21 Mar 2019 5:11 am    
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My family often hears me yell "OH!!!" when I'm practicing or working up a particular tune.

I love these epiphanies - I have them too. And they often seem so obvious & basic when I "discover" them. I'm constantly amazed at the E9 Emmons copedent. I find it to be incredibly logical, despite the fact I'm not so good at taking command of all it offers yet. But whenever I find something "new," my first thought is: "oh, THAT's how I can get there! Totally makes sense!"

But I don't do so well with reading about these things. When I learn a change/move that is new to me, it is because it popped up in a song I'm working on. Practicing that move in the context of the song in which I "discovered" it is the best way for me to internalize these things.
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Pete Burak

 

From:
Portland, OR USA
Post  Posted 21 Mar 2019 9:20 am    
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I always thought a more logical way to assemble E9th would be to have the string2-D# on string-1, and the string9-D on string-10.
Then put two stacks of G#-F#-E-B in the middle on strings 2-9.
This takes nothing away from your exisitng E9th, and gets your notes in the same order across two octaves.
With E's lowerd you have B6th on the middle 8 strings (lower string1-D# to C# for B6th playing). Release the E's and grab string10-D for the P6 function on a 6th tuning.
With AB down you have an A6th tuning on the middle 8 strings that is the same as the basic Western Swing tuning.
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Ian Rae


From:
Redditch, England
Post  Posted 21 Mar 2019 10:31 am    
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From time to time someone comes up with a modified E9 tuning, and in some cases they incorporate it into their setup because it's more logical for the music they play. That's the beauty of this instrument - it's not so easy to do with a saxophone (although a woodwind technician would probably take issue with me Smile )

The traditional E9 must have some intrinsic virtue to have kept it so popular.
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Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 21 Mar 2019 10:32 am    
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Dang, Pete. I thought I had it all figured out there for a minute... Your idea seems to borrow some C6 Logic, with the middle 8 stacked in a pair of 4’s over two octaves. You’d have to write a new book on E9 grips and rolls.

I have been visualizing the neck all along as two sets of 5 strings with different tuning schemes, and I struggled with the large interval between strings 5 and 4. Now, with this recent revelation, my little mind sees it as essentially the same tuning across both sets and a much more convenient intervalic bridge between strings 5 and 2 for connecting the upper range, making transitions with the lower range easier and more logical...to me anyway.
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Michael Sheehan


From:
Everett, Washington, USA - Heading back to Florida 2021
Post  Posted 5 Aug 2019 12:30 pm    
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Strings 10-8-6 cut mathematically in half are 5-4-3, same notes, octave higher. That was my first ah-ha moment. I’m a new guy and am still waiting for my first pedal steel guitar, so I spend a lot of time studying charts and trying to commit things to memory. Once I get my new Encore I am sure I will have daily ah-ha moments!
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Roger Rettig


From:
Naples, FL
Post  Posted 5 Aug 2019 2:17 pm    
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You can't beat those flashes of lucidity! I suppose it proves that our brains are working at stuff while we're not aware of it happening.

I was doing a gig with Buddy Emmons about thirty years ago. I was, of course, in awe at just being in the same band but, while I was too star-struck to recall the specifics, I distinctly remember him noodling around when he looked up at us (me and Gerry Hogan) and said: 'I've just realised - if I play these three strings two frets down and engage (such and such) a pedal, I can get the same thing in another place!'

As I say, I can't remember what he found but it showed me that even 'E' was having revelations on E9 at that relatively late stage in his career.
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John Goux

 

From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 5 Aug 2019 11:57 pm    
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Nice, Fred.
I too at times have been irritated by the non symmetrical layout of E9.

One of Buddy’s great contributions was the re entrant strings. By altering the order of the high strings it allows the terraced thirds on adjacent strings, and speed licks picked as TMTM, which are not as easy in the lower octave where the strings descend in a more logical order.

It seems like strings 2 and 9 should both be either D or D#. That would be more symmetrical. But then you would lose those nice Dmaj7/6 chords on string 9.

I’ve wondered if Buddy did this as a joke....
The octave of
3 is 6.
4 is 8.
5 is 10.
6 is 11(oops!)

(I play Ext E9, partly because it makes more sense to me)

The bottom line is that great music can and will be made in any tuning. But when someone hires a pedal steel, they may expect the sounds created by the traditional E9 tuning, with all its iconic quirks.
John
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Craig A Davidson


From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
Post  Posted 6 Aug 2019 5:28 am    
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On that same thought the light bulb came on the other day as to why Lloyd stated that the E-F lever completed everything he needed.
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Bengt Erlandsen

 

From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
Post  Posted 7 Aug 2019 3:11 am    
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I had a small lightbulb moment was when realizing that between...
G# and g there is 2 strings (4 strings span grip)
E and e there is 3 strings (5 strings span grip)
B and b there is 4 strings (6 strings span grip)

Obvious, yes, but it wasnt obvious to my right hand fingers at first.

B.Erlandsen
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b0b


From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
Post  Posted 7 Aug 2019 8:29 am    
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When I got my first 10-string pedal steel, I tuned it to D major pentatonic because that just made sense to me.

A B D E F# A B D E F#

If the root were E, it would be this:

B C# E F# G# B C# E F# G#

After a few years I switched to E9th. With a lever lowering strings 2 and 9 to C#, I had the same intervals. I retrained my right hand (and my brain) to the new order of the top 4 strings and became a commercially viable steel guitarist. Mr. Green
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Jerry Horch


From:
Alva, Florida, USA
Post  Posted 7 Aug 2019 8:36 am     Thinkin
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Every now and then I think of something deep...but I forgot what it was....
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Michael Sheehan


From:
Everett, Washington, USA - Heading back to Florida 2021
Post  Posted 9 Aug 2019 9:24 am    
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Michael Sheehan wrote:
Strings 10-8-6 cut mathematically in half are 5-4-3, same notes, octave higher. That was my first ah-ha moment. I’m a new guy and am still waiting for my first pedal steel guitar, so I spend a lot of time studying charts and trying to commit things to memory. Once I get my new Encore I am sure I will have daily ah-ha moments!


And another revelation, in open position (no pedals) the 3rd and 5th note in the major scale are the 3rd and 5th strings (and their big brothers and doubled numbers 6 and 10). Makes it easy to remember the root is always 4 and 8.
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