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Topic: Which would you go with: Fender 1000 or Sho-Bud Pro 1? |
J Fletcher
From:
London,Ont,Canada
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Posted 1 Oct 2018 12:24 pm |
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| The 9th string D in B6 mode is very useful for getting an E7 , or E9 (minus the root E) , a B minor , etc , etc . I'm sure Dave knows this . There's a lot in the B6 position . |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 1 Oct 2018 2:18 pm
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| The 9th string D in B6 mode is very useful for getting an E7 , or E9 (minus the root E) , a B minor , etc , etc. |
Absolutely - the strings outside of the open-chord can be useful, both in B6 and A6 mode. Even with a standard 10-string E9, with A+B down in A6, the 9th string D note can serve as a root much in the same way as the 9th string A can serve as a root in 10-string C6 as found on most D10s. I think this is a pretty standard part of the E9 lexicon.
Once you get into E9 pedal steel, I really do try to think about it as "one big tuning" regardless of which one you're talking about - standard E9, extended E9, or E9/B6 universsal. One can spend a lifetime exploring it. And of course, right now, I'm spending more time with my consoles and C6 because I have a new band coming in that needs that. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2018 3:34 pm
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It'd be great if you could try both, or a Fender and something close to the Shobud. It's inevitable that most of the answers here would favor the Shobud, because it's "normal" and "relatively modern".
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Donny,
That could be, but there sure aren't too many steel players still using the old cable drive Fenders. Very Happy
Erv |
Erv, you might visit the 700-member Fender Pedal Steel page on Facebook. Not all play Fenders but several hundred do - and there are plenty of others that don't want to join Facebook or don't frequent ANY internet forum or social sites.
As far as which guitar - again, playing both is helpful if possible. I owned a Pro 1 (among several other 10-strings with 3 or more pedals and 4 or more knees), and it was among my least favorites.
I've mainly played Fender 400's for years; primarily in B6 with 4-8 pedals and 2 knees, but using other copedents as well. I also own an SD10 ZB 3+4 in E9 just for the heck of it.
I prefer the Fender for virtually everything. I only use the SB when somebody want s the higher-pitched "shining" type sound. I'm not a "fast lick" p[layer on any instrument, so that use of the chromatic strings is of no use for me.
And I'm not well versed in theory or advanced chord structures, and I'm also not a "clone" player that feels the need to copy recorded solos or fills exactly - I'd rather get the general feel and "skeleton melody" and come up with the rest myself. I find everything I want to play on the Fender. Even when I had one set up with the low-8 atrings of E9 I preferred it to newer guitars.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 2 Oct 2018 4:04 am
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I hope it's clear that I have not been dismissive of the Fender, not at all. But he did say this in the OP:
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| The style I'm looking to play in: think Jimmy Day on "Pick Me Up on Your Way Down." |
Textbook old Sho Bud, IMO. I also think it's good to try anything one might be thinking about rather than rely solely on advice. But it ain't exactly like going down to the neighborhood guitar store and saying, "Let's see, I'll try out one of these, and one of these, and one of these ...".  |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 2 Oct 2018 6:42 am
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| Dave Mudgett wrote: |
I hope it's clear that I have not been dismissive of the Fender, not at all. But he did say this in the OP:
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| The style I'm looking to play in: think Jimmy Day on "Pick Me Up on Your Way Down." |
Textbook old Sho Bud, IMO. |
Yes, that was an 8-string 'Bud...with no levers.  |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2018 7:11 am
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I used to have to crank my car to get it going, but when they came out with electric starters, I don't do that any more. 
Erv |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2018 7:30 am Would you go with a Fender 1000 or a Sho Bud Pro 1
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| Do you forsee buying any courses, taking lessons, or getting instruction off the internet? If so lots of luck finding any help on the 1000. Do you want to learn signature intro's and turnarounds to classic country songs like the record? Lots of luck getting them with the 1000. The 1000 would be a fun 2nd guitar, but for a main guitar, not the way to go IMHO. You are just going to be out in left field all by yourself and out of step with 99% of all the other steel players. You need at least 3 knee levers. Lower 4 and 8, raise 4 and 8, and lower 2. |
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Matt Fisher
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2018 8:28 am Re: Would you go with a Fender 1000 or a Sho Bud Pro 1
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| George Kimery wrote: |
| Do you forsee buying any courses, taking lessons, or getting instruction off the internet? If so lots of luck finding any help on the 1000. Do you want to learn signature intro's and turnarounds to classic country songs like the record? Lots of luck getting them with the 1000. The 1000 would be a fun 2nd guitar, but for a main guitar, not the way to go IMHO. You are just going to be out in left field all by yourself and out of step with 99% of all the other steel players. You need at least 3 knee levers. Lower 4 and 8, raise 4 and 8, and lower 2. |
Yeah, I already have some books, and a lot of what they talk about, the Erickson 3+1 can't do. (On a side note, I do have one book from the 60s that was clearly written with the Fender 400 in mind, as it talks about eight strings, four pedals, and no levers. Pretty basic stuff, though). I'm coming around to the realization that I'm gonna need a modern S10 or even a D10 to do what I want to do. Hey, I don't have to use all of the levers and/or strings on every song if I don't want to, but it seems pretty clear I'll miss them sooner or later if they're not there! Well, I do have a birthday coming up, so maybe I'll buy myself a nice present! 
Thanks for all of the great advice for this relative newby, at least to the world of pedals! |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 2 Oct 2018 9:13 am
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
I used to have to crank my car to get it going, but when they came out with electric starters, I don't do that any more.
Erv |
Erv, go right on doing whatever it is that you want to do. No one is telling you to change. But please, be good enough to let others do what they might want to do. 
I remember 40-some odd years ago seeing George Van Eps playing a 7-string guitar. I think it was very fortunate that the whole world didn't run out back then and buy a 7-string guitar just so they could have the latest, greatest, and most-est.  |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2018 9:20 am
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Donny,
I'm not stopping anybody, they can do anything they want to.
You have a right to your opinion and I have a right to mine.
Do you have a problem with that? 
Erv |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 2 Oct 2018 11:44 am
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Nope, Erv, not at all! I just don't think that everyone should play the same, or use the same setup, or the same equipment. In fact, if you read my first post, you'll see I said:
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| It takes a certain "mindset" to play a simple guitar like a 1000. With no levers to use, there's a lot that isn't there, but there's also the challenge of seeing what can be done without them. A very few players enjoy this feeling, the feeling of keeping the old gear alive, along with it's sound and style. It's sorta like the people who own and drive an old classic or antique car. |
Put simply, I happen to like individuality and a variety of sounds, styles, guitars, and tunings. But evidently, a lot of players here do not. They want the same-old, same-old thing all the time.
I just happen to think that that's unfortunate, both for future players, and for the listeners. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2018 12:07 pm
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Donny,
If two people agree on everything, one of them is unnecessary. 
Erv |
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Mark Perrodin
From:
Tucson Arizona, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2018 6:23 pm fender 1000
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| great insight tim whitlock. 100% correct answer. i love both of my fenders. they have led me down paths i don't think i would have travelled with my msa. |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 3 Oct 2018 3:25 am
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I would say before buying a Fender 1000, put it in its case and try lifting it and carrying it. Seriously! It's a lot heavier than my quad!
If it passes that test then I'd agree with those that say that the sound is amazing, and perfect for the style of music you are going to play. You can add knee levers pretty easily and 8 strings didn't slow down Sneaky Pete, Speedy West, Mooney or a whole host of other players. There's also something to be said for not going down the same path as the majority.
Having said that, I had a 1000 for a few years and sold it a couple of years ago and bought a Sho~Bud 6139 (essentially a Pro 1) which I love.
The main reason I sold it was because it was heavy enough to be a problem moving it from one room to another, let alone down 2 stories to take it to a gig!
I'm using the Sho~Bud for more modern style stuff, enjoying the extra strings and knee levers and love the way it looks but if I'm doing a more 50's style gig I'll still use one of my console steels and if I had a roadie, I'd get another 1000 and there would be times when I'd use it in place of the Sho~Bud (and vice-versa). |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 3 Oct 2018 4:33 am
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| Ron Pruter wrote: |
| Bud. I don't like the mushy feel of cables. (Think hand brake on a bike) The feel is nice and solid on an old ShoBud. |
If you had that feeling on a fender cable guitar, it was set up wrong, period.. They have a solid easy feel when properly adjusted.. I've had 4 of them and they all played and felt wonderful.
As an all around gig steel I would take the Bud as well, for one reason, and it has nothing to do with sound, or playability.
simply put, the Bud is a lot lighter, smaller, and a lot less unwieldy to set up and transport.
However, if that Fender is set up correctly, has 4 well done, well adjusted levers, and you don't mind the weight and size, you will give up nothing to the Bud in terms of tone, flexibility, or playability..
Different sounding than the Bud, but just as sweet sounding..
Problem with Fender cable steels is too many are not set up correctly, and too many have no, or poorly fitted knee levers..\
my fenders played as well as any pedal steel guitars of their era, and actually, better than most.... Just too damn heavy... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time......
Last edited by Bob Carlucci on 3 Oct 2018 8:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 3 Oct 2018 4:50 am
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Just though of another advantage to the 1000 - it is so easy to change the configuration around.
Disadvantage- it is single raise single lower meaning you can raise a string by a half tone on one pedal but you can't also raise it by a whole tone on a different one. |
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George Geisser
From:
Branson, Missouri, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2018 7:41 am Fender 1000 Universal
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With a F# Chromatic on top and minus the D string except on the B6 pedal I've managed to come up with what I believe to be the best of all worlds. You can't beat the tone, mechanics and ease of changes of the 1000. Mine didn't include the cables and pedals so I went with coat hangers and hardware like the earlier Shobuds. With 5 pedals and 4 knees I have most of what is on my 12 Uni Zum minus the two bottom strings which I never used. I'm sure you real 6ers might miss them! My new kick is "less is best" and am enjoying the nostalgia and history of this early ax
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2018 8:28 am
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Maybe you should send a picture of that to Junior Brown.
Erv |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 14 Dec 2018 1:41 pm
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
Maybe you should send a picture of that to Junior Brown.
Erv |
I'm sure he'd be interested but he's already had that idea...
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2018 7:58 am
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The bud is the logical choice for E9 country only because the Fender lacks the chromatic strings, and the knee levers .
However the C6 neck would benefit a lot of players, so thats a plus for the fender.
Several guys mentioned playability, "mushiness", getting tired playing the Fender etc, as reasons for not playing a Fender.
I have said it on these pages a million times, and I'll state it again- If a Fender cable pedal steel has any playability issues at all, it simply isn't set up and adjusted correctly.. I have owned 4 of them and they play as well as any pedal steel of their era, and better than a lot of them.. They are not mushy, and although the stops are within of the changer they are always solid... Fender steels are a different breed, nothing like a modern system, but it was a reliable and accurate pull system and worked perfectly for a long time.. The only place Fender really dropped the ball was in the lack of knee levers. bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 15 Dec 2018 10:06 am
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| Bob Carlucci wrote: |
Several guys mentioned playability, "mushiness", getting tired playing the Fender etc, as reasons for not playing a Fender. |
My only issue with the Fender cable steels was the weight! If not for that, I'd still have mine. |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 15 Dec 2018 10:12 am
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| Given the choice, Bud. C'mon.... |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2018 10:32 am
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Guys, Please...
Stop the madness
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tom anderson
From:
leawood, ks., usa
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Posted 16 Dec 2018 12:44 pm L
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For the kind of music you say you play-get the Fender if you can find a good one. It will do everything you want and sound like it.
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