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Post new topic Amp Sim Pedals?
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Author Topic:  Amp Sim Pedals?
Chris Bauer

 

From:
Nashville, TN USA
Post  Posted 7 Oct 2018 9:39 am    
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I may have a series of jobs coming up in a club that doesn't allow amps on stage - direct to the board only.

I'd love it if I didn't have to lug an amp just to use the DI and have no interest in investing in something like a Kemper at this point.

Who here has experience playing pedal steel through one of the stompbox amp sims with a direct out (Amplifirebox, etc.)? I know how a lot of them sound with guitar but I'm looking for informed input from any of you who have used one or more of them with pedal steel.

Thanks!
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Jon Light


From:
Saugerties, NY
Post  Posted 7 Oct 2018 11:31 am    
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Chris -- talk to Olli and see if he feels the Tech 21 Blonde might be an answer. I've never used mine direct -- only as a pedalboard flavoring device. He was awfully high on it 8 years ago.

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=179332
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Tim Marcus


From:
San Francisco, CA
Post  Posted 7 Oct 2018 11:34 am    
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-GeywpFCQg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDTQ2rsZquc

I have been using mine with steel on stage with great results.
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Chris Walke

 

From:
St Charles, IL
Post  Posted 8 Oct 2018 5:15 am    
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Quilter MicroBlock? Vox MV50 Clean? Those are in my budget, so that's what I have. If I had a bigger budget, I'd get the little Milkman in a half a heartbeat.
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Olli Haavisto


From:
Jarvenpaa,Finland
Post  Posted 8 Oct 2018 10:59 am    
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I’m still using the Blonde for steel on my ”singer/songwriter DI gig board”
Still lovin it, you just need to play it like a tube amp, not hitting it with the volume pedal floored. Get the volume you need later in the signal chain.
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Dave Mudgett


From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
Post  Posted 8 Oct 2018 11:31 am    
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Generally speaking, I hate playing without a backline amp. I mean, seriously, how can anybody argue with a silverface Princeton Reverb. It just gets ridiculous sometimes.

But when bullied into it occasionally several years back, I used (initially) a Pod (2.0 or XT) heavily edited for the best, most Fendery clean tones I could get. I think it's "acceptable tone", and I imagine other modelers can be tweaked to give similar results. But after I got a Sarno Revelation preamp, that became my go-to for such situations. Not super-insane cheap, but nothing like a Kemper. I find it much more satisfying, and they can be had in the $5-600 range (plus or minus) on the forum sometimes.

I also might just use my DV Mark Micro 50 Ciro Manna 50-watt head, which is basically their Micro 50 with a subminiature preamp tube. It's about 4 pounds, fits with needed cables and a pedal or two into a Dell laptop case, and on-sale can be had for less than $300 periodically. I guess I'd bring a speaker along and try to push them into letting me use it, but you can run these as a pure preamp. As Olli says about the Blonde, I need to play it like a tube amp - it can be pushed too hard by a hard-hitting pedal steel pickup.

As stated earlier, I would push to try to be able to use a low-volume amp. My Fryette Power Station can turn any reasonable-power amp into a very low-level backline with a good line-out. It's more stuff to carry, though, and I guess if you're really stuck with no backline amp, I'd consider either the Rev or something like the DV Mark or Tim's Milkman "The Amp". I'm an equipment junkie, and I'm sure I'll have to try one of the latter out at some point.
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Olli Haavisto


From:
Jarvenpaa,Finland
Post  Posted 8 Oct 2018 11:50 am    
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Your`re right about Brad`s stuff, Dave!
I don`t have the Revelation, but I`ve got the V8. That`s my go to DI steel gadget...
That`s what I`ll bring to ampless gigs, studio and live, if I don`t need the whole board which has preamps for reso and weissenborn, too.
The V8, Dispatch Master and a decent monitor and I`m good to go.
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Rich Gibson


From:
Pittsburgh Pa.
Post  Posted 8 Oct 2018 1:48 pm    
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I like the tech 21 blonde a lot.Although I have not used it live I use it to record at home quite a bit.It sounds even better with a Dunlap Cab dryvr cab simulator.It has one built in which is pretty good but the Cab dryvr pedal takes it up a notch or two.
If your using ears it sounds great through buds.
There’s better like the Milkman and V8 but if your looking for economical its a good option.
Here it is direct into pro tools with just a little Reverb
Not quite the same as live but can give you an idea
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o880576xwm46cql/TO%20HANG%20ME%20HIGH.aif?dl=0
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Richard Nelson


From:
Drogheda, Louth, Ireland
Post  Posted 18 Oct 2018 4:58 pm    
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I used a Sansamp para DI and it works great if you mix between the Sansamp and the direct signal. Just started with the Atomic Amplifirebox recently and it sounds ok direct to the daw. I’m going to gig it tomorrow.
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Tony Dingus

 

From:
Kingsport, Tennessee, USA
Post  Posted 18 Oct 2018 6:52 pm    
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I think Randy Beavers used the Blonde at one time for no amp gigs. Maybe he'll see this and correct me. A Pod sounds good. I use a different reverb instead of the Pod's . The Pod XT reverb is good.


Tony
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Richard Nelson


From:
Drogheda, Louth, Ireland
Post  Posted 19 Oct 2018 12:44 pm    
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I used a Sansamp para DI and it works great if you mix between the Sansamp and the direct signal. Just started with the Atomic Amplifirebox recently and it sounds ok direct to the daw. I’m going to gig it tomorrow.
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Bryan Daste


From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
Post  Posted 19 Oct 2018 2:51 pm    
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Might take a look at the Mooer PreAMP Live. I have a Kemper and love it, but it is a lot of "kit."
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Richard Nelson


From:
Drogheda, Louth, Ireland
Post  Posted 19 Oct 2018 6:32 pm    
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The Amplifirebox is the shit for steel. I can share the setting if anyone wants it.
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Godfrey Arthur

 

From:
3rd Rock
Post  Posted 19 Oct 2018 11:56 pm    
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I like the original POD for an amp sim as it is the most analog of them all.

Compact with many effects and features, these were designed to be used as an interface with either DI or into an amp/mixer.


I still have my 2.0.

Here's one for sale by a forumite. Comes with the foot pedal for changing patches.

At this writing it appears to be still up for grabs.

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=336817


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Richard Nelson


From:
Drogheda, Louth, Ireland
Post  Posted 20 Oct 2018 3:18 am    
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My gripe with the Pod is that it usually sounds great out front but in your IEMs it’s hard as nails and not nice to use. If I had to use it all through a gig it wouldn’t be enjoyable. There’s new Impulse response speaker sims are streets ahead.
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Tommy Boswell

 

From:
Virginia, USA
Post  Posted 20 Oct 2018 4:42 am    
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It would be interesting to hear from someone who has used the high-end stuff in this thread and also tried this: http://www.joyoaudio.com/en/product/show_110.html

(for those of us on an amateur's budget)
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Jack Stoner


From:
Kansas City, MO
Post  Posted 20 Oct 2018 5:00 am    
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Although not a "stomp box" I use my Quilter Steelaire rack direct for recording. Its close enough to miked that I don't need to mic my steel. If I had to use a direct to board for a gig that is what I would use.

I have other boxes in my home recording studio, including SansAmps but I don't find them well suited for pedal steel and wouldn't use one live.
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Richard Nelson


From:
Drogheda, Louth, Ireland
Post  Posted 20 Oct 2018 6:45 am    
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I tried that Joyo. Sounded like a cheese grater. And Jack, It wasn’t long ago you were singing the Sansamps praises. Did it start to sound bad all of a sudden?
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Godfrey Arthur

 

From:
3rd Rock
Post  Posted 20 Oct 2018 10:12 am    
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Richard Nelson wrote:
There’s new Impulse response speaker sims are streets ahead.


The thing about IR is you need a DAW to use it, and they don't all sound the same, there are good ones and bad ones, IR available for free as well.

Ownhammer is a higher end sample of these offerings.
A Kemper is another device that can be used as an IR system.

An IR system is a digital picture going into a DAW. It would depend on your amp/speaker/mic(s)/preamp as to what the IR will capture.

How tech savvy is one to use an IR is an issue.

There is also a program "Blend IR" using a test tone to generate a 20-20k sine wave. In short you would need to be your own musician/engineer to get what you consider your ideal tone from an IR system unless you have a stable of those guys under your employ.

Basically the IR capture will be a file like speaker tone choices in Amp Farm, is used to blend with the real speaker cab mic sound or just go alone.

To my ears, there is an initial great tone perception but after a while, there is a latency to where the two sounds (amp signal and DAW effect) sort of not track as well (when playing the two in situ) and there is a cobbling effect of the two sounds, perhaps CPU related in the case of blending real amp/mic signals and the IR effect. YMMV

On the fly a simple device with knobs you can access is more user friendly.

Case in point, Angus Young in the studio, producer asks why isn't Angus' tone his usual...

Because his wireless system was not plugged in.

That said, there are DI boxes many pros use on stage from the popular DI box makers.
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Last edited by Godfrey Arthur on 21 Oct 2018 2:14 am; edited 2 times in total
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John Sluszny

 

From:
Brussels, Belgium
Post  Posted 20 Oct 2018 10:51 am    
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There's a Tech21 product with mid shift control !!! What do you think of that ?
Thanks.
http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/paradriverdi.html
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Godfrey Arthur

 

From:
3rd Rock
Post  Posted 20 Oct 2018 12:10 pm    
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John Sluszny wrote:
There's a Tech21 product with mid shift control !!! What do you think of that ?
Thanks.
http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/paradriverdi.html


Assuming this question was directed my way, the mid shift control merely turns the mid frequency control into a parametric EQ at that point where one can chose what particular mid frequency is boosted or attenuated.



What the whole device sounds like for any one's particular use is going to vary on what the Sansamp is connected to and how the input/outputs marry to the instrument and amp/mixer and what the user is looking for in a sound.

Many devices, you need to try them yourself to see what it does and if you like the results.
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Lee Baucum


From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
Post  Posted 20 Oct 2018 12:41 pm    
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Perhaps I've just led a sheltered life.

I can't imagine playing a live gig without an amp.
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Jack Stoner


From:
Kansas City, MO
Post  Posted 20 Oct 2018 12:41 pm    
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Richard Nelson, I thought the SansAmp was good for steel until I got the Steelaire.
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Bob Hoffnar


From:
Austin, Tx
Post  Posted 20 Oct 2018 1:07 pm    
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I have had great success with the new Milkman "The Amp" and the Sarno V8. In a pinch I have used a Baggs paracoustic D.I. and it sounded great. They are about $100 used and very useful.
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Darren Porter

 

From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 20 Oct 2018 1:33 pm    
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Have you considered something like a Fender Mustang I? Small, very light, great sounding models of all the classic and modern Fender amps. You could use the headphone out jack to go direct to the board. It also doubles as a great practice amp and light compact backup that I take to every gig and on those very rare occasions I have to use it live it performs great. (I wired an external speaker jack into it that shuts off the internal speaker when a speaker cable is inserted so I can use my regular guitar cabs with it.)

They go for around $75 on the used market.

I'm a total noob when it comes to steel but I really like how mine sounds with my new SX Lap 2.
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