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Topic: Newbie Question |
Anthony Krcmar
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2018 2:44 pm |
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Ive been play guitar for almost 40 years and play several other instruments as well but have never tried a Pedal Steel. Im doing some alt country recordings now and am ready to give it a shot.
I dont see myself being a master at this. More of a "make it do what I need it to do (to varying degrees of success)" type of player.
So my question is, Im trying to decide which way to go in my price range (under 2K). There are two I am looking at. A Deckley and a Zum Steel from a friend of a friend (I think its a student model)
I would appreciate any feedback from the excellent craftsmen at this site.
Any input would be greatly appreciated
Anthony
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Ben Waligoske
From:
Denver, CO
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Posted 2 Oct 2018 3:17 pm
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How many pedals and knee levers on the Zum? Looks like 3x4 on the Dekley... Anything to remark on otherwise about the condition of either guitar? Is one vastly cheaper than the other?
To be perfectly honest, considering your description of how you'd like to use it and how often you might be playing, I'd say either one is probably fine provided they are both in working mechanical order and won't need any repairs. More pedals and levers is always a bonus... Since the Zum is most likely an early student model, you may or may not be able to change the copedent on it while the Dekley likely (?) is changeable, which is also a consideration, but it's likely set up in a standard Emmons fashion so again, for your intentions, that may not be a huge deal.
Depending on the timing of your recordings and how quickly you need a steel, I'd also watch the classifieds section here on the Forum and see what pops up... 70s Sho Buds, MSAs, Carters, and certain other modern guitar brands would all be in your range for $2k... and might be a little sexier than either of the options you've presented, but that's just personal opinion.
Since you're in IL, that may also be a factor - Nashville and the surrounding area isn't so far away, so watch the Craigslist etc. there too...good luck and don't hesitate to ask more questions! |
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Anthony Krcmar
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2018 4:02 pm
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hey Ben,
Thank you for the quick response. The Zum is 3x1. The Deckley asking 1500 (Though think I can get for 1350) the Zum I can get for 1000.
Deckley I wont be able to check out because its too far away but the place selling it has a great rating on Reverb.com with many items sold. The Zum like I said is a friend of a friend and is heading up to Chicago in 2 weeks so I will get a chance to play it.
My main worry is I get it and it needs repairs or something and not really looking to get become and expert PSG mechanic.
Yes,, Chicago area is not the hub a Pedal Steels. I have been waiting for months and nothing is even remotely in the area.
But to confirm, in your opinion, for what I am trying to do, (hack around in a studio environment.. it will never leave the studio) either would probably suit my needs?
Thanks again much appreciated!
| Ben Waligoske wrote: |
How many pedals and knee levers on the Zum? Looks like 3x4 on the Dekley... Anything to remark on otherwise about the condition of either guitar? Is one vastly cheaper than the other?
To be perfectly honest, considering your description of how you'd like to use it and how often you might be playing, I'd say either one is probably fine provided they are both in working mechanical order and won't need any repairs. More pedals and levers is always a bonus... Since the Zum is most likely an early student model, you may or may not be able to change the copedent on it while the Dekley likely (?) is changeable, which is also a consideration, but it's likely set up in a standard Emmons fashion so again, for your intentions, that may not be a huge deal.
Depending on the timing of your recordings and how quickly you need a steel, I'd also watch the classifieds section here on the Forum and see what pops up... 70s Sho Buds, MSAs, Carters, and certain other modern guitar brands would all be in your range for $2k... and might be a little sexier than either of the options you've presented, but that's just personal opinion.
Since you're in IL, that may also be a factor - Nashville and the surrounding area isn't so far away, so watch the Craigslist etc. there too...good luck and don't hesitate to ask more questions! |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2018 4:16 pm
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Great advice from Ben. Buying used is more about condition and playability than it is about manufacturer. Any of the reputable names will do.
PSG is a very physical instrument. You literally play it with your whole body. You have to make sure you can sit down and fit into it comfortably, like you would with buying a car. I am 6’3, and any steel without a leg lift kit is virtually unplayable for me. And I need a higher than average chair.
The pedals and levers need to be set up to suit your physical and musical needs. The B (middle) pedal on the Deckley in your photo looks a lot higher then the A or C, which is a little weird and may indicate other playability oddities.
A 3x4 E9 S10 should keep you busy and do everything you need it to do for a long time. Whether you want to master it or not, this instrument sucks you in... |
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Ben Waligoske
From:
Denver, CO
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Posted 2 Oct 2018 4:54 pm
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Yes, likely either is going to get you started in a safe spot, again provided there is nothing mechanically wrong. But if you're spending the money, it may be worth looking beyond a student model so you don't have to shuffle/trade/sell guitars in the future once you're hooked, as many do....
Fred, I was going to make the same comment about the B pedal on the Dekley, but my guess is that's an adjustable issue... FWIW Anthony, most players keep their ABC pedals in almost an opposite setup than what is pictured, with the B pedal being the lowest, allowing for easier rocking to-and-fro from the A and C pedals with the B still engaged. A lot is player preference, but just FYI...
Fred is also right on about the fit and feel too... it's always good to know more about your stature and such, though again, that can be made to fit provided the steel you buy has adjustable legs etc at a minimum... and if it's a "pro" steel (not student) then a lot of the levers etc should be adjustable too.
I know the GFI below is bordering on your price limit, but generally speaking this is absolutely a "pay for what you get" situation, and as a beginner it's best to have something dialed in that won't require repair... I don't know these guitars personally, but at a glance, here's a few others to take a look at, if you're not afraid of a sight unseen deal.
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=336609
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=336360
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=336585
That's just getting started. There's a couple of old Sho~Buds that have come up lately too, but chances are they might need some adjustment you may not want to deal with.
Don't hesitate to PM me or any forum member with specific questions as you are searching. It's a strange new world I know, but welcome! For your price range, you'll certainly find something that is high quality and will last you for as long as your interest lasts, and beyond... but beware, soon you'll have multiple steels laying around begging to be played if you're not careful!
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Anthony Krcmar
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2018 5:26 pm
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Fred and Ben,
Thank you for your input. I cant tell you how appreciative I am.
Ive done some research on a number of ones I was looking at but I never looked up Mullen but I will say that is one beautiful looking rig. If you had a choice between the Mullen and the BMI for sound/sustain would you lean one way or the other?
and two, do you think one of these is in better condition or those?
Guys thank you again!
| Ben Waligoske wrote: |
Yes, likely either is going to get you started in a safe spot, again provided there is nothing mechanically wrong. But if you're spending the money, it may be worth looking beyond a student model so you don't have to shuffle/trade/sell guitars in the future once you're hooked, as many do....
Fred, I was going to make the same comment about the B pedal on the Dekley, but my guess is that's an adjustable issue... FWIW Anthony, most players keep their ABC pedals in almost an opposite setup than what is pictured, with the B pedal being the lowest, allowing for easier rocking to-and-fro from the A and C pedals with the B still engaged. A lot is player preference, but just FYI...
Fred is also right on about the fit and feel too... it's always good to know more about your stature and such, though again, that can be made to fit provided the steel you buy has adjustable legs etc at a minimum... and if it's a "pro" steel (not student) then a lot of the levers etc should be adjustable too.
I know the GFI below is bordering on your price limit, but generally speaking this is absolutely a "pay for what you get" situation, and as a beginner it's best to have something dialed in that won't require repair... I don't know these guitars personally, but at a glance, here's a few others to take a look at, if you're not afraid of a sight unseen deal.
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=336609
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=336360
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=336585
That's just getting started. There's a couple of old Sho~Buds that have come up lately too, but chances are they might need some adjustment you may not want to deal with.
Don't hesitate to PM me or any forum member with specific questions as you are searching. It's a strange new world I know, but welcome! For your price range, you'll certainly find something that is high quality and will last you for as long as your interest lasts, and beyond... but beware, soon you'll have multiple steels laying around begging to be played if you're not careful!
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2018 8:12 pm
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Anthony, I am not the person to make the call to on sustain and tone. I have only been playing a couple years on my first purchase, a Stage One, and I am very happy with it.
I am sure any of those guitars will sound great with a good clean amp. Each of them is built using different materials and different types of pickups that will characterize their sound.That Mullen is indeed a beauty, looks to be in mint, and looks like a great deal. |
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Jon Schimek
From:
Lyons, Co - USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2018 8:51 pm
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Both are great sounding guitars that will stay in tune and serve you well.
Only my opinion but the Mullen will be noticeably lighter and easier to sell if you change your mind later. I like BMI but that’s what I’d buy the Mullen if I were you.
_________________
MSA Vintage-XL, Pre-RP Mullen
Nashville 400 w/blackbox, Space Echo. |
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Anthony Krcmar
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 3 Oct 2018 4:20 am
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| Thanks again guys I appreciate your input! I PM'd both of them but havent heard back yet. That Mullen does look like a beauty! |
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Charley Bond
From:
Inola, OK, USA
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Posted 3 Oct 2018 6:27 am BMI or Dekley
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I had a friend that had a BMI like that, it was a OKAY Guitar. I had a Dekley & it too was an OKAY guitar, never went Out of Tune.
If you want a single neck, there's a Red Sho~Bud for sale that will be a good guitar. It looks like a good one.
Buying & selling guitars is no fun, it's best to choose something that you won't be selling, so you can be pickin' n' Grinnin', not shoppin' or sellin'...
Have you chosen your copedent, I like Tommy White's... (the Day Way)
Good Luck...
_________________
Steel Guitar players are members of a Special Family |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 3 Oct 2018 7:23 am
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"Ive done some research on a number of ones I was looking at but I never looked up Mullen but I will say that is one beautiful looking rig. If you had a choice between the Mullen and the BMI for sound/sustain would you lean one way or the other? "
100% Mullen.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting.
Last edited by Richard Sinkler on 3 Oct 2018 3:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Anthony Krcmar
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 3 Oct 2018 7:43 am
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Thanks Richard, I contacted the seller but havent heard back yet. Thank you for your help!
Anthony |
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Jon Schimek
From:
Lyons, Co - USA
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Posted 3 Oct 2018 7:47 am
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Sorry. Want to ammend a comment I made.
The seller commented the BMI is 27 pounds. Probably about the same as the Discovery. Both are on the light side, which is a big plus. Also the BMI is open to reasonable offers so you may be able to get it cheaper plus seller has a good rep.
The BMI is 3X3 and the Mullen is 3x4... also I believe you can add a split mechanism to a Discovery. I don't think the extra knee or splits will bother you if you want to "make it do what I need it to do", but it would help with resale or if you get caught up in it. You can always get an additional knee for the BMI for less than the cost difference... both companies are still alive!!
I'd still go with the discovery, but I think the BMI will serve you very well if you want to save a few bucks.
_________________
MSA Vintage-XL, Pre-RP Mullen
Nashville 400 w/blackbox, Space Echo. |
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Anthony Krcmar
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 3 Oct 2018 8:14 am
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Thank you Jon, I appreciate the feedback! Whichever girl I get she will be a permanent fixture in my recording studio so weight will not be an issue as I wont be bringing her out of her home.
I have pinged both sellers but havent heard anything yet. I really like the look of the Mullen so waiting anxiously for a response
Thanks again! |
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Ronnie Boettcher
From:
Brunswick Ohio, USA
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Posted 3 Oct 2018 12:38 pm
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You are in a area, like I was, and there are very few steels hanging around. My advice to you, is to take a few days, and drive to Nashville, and look over a small heard of steels. Sit behind them, and tinker around with the pedals, and levers. One steel will tell you "buy me". No matter what you will get, in the near future, you have to make some adjustments to fit "you". A steel has to match "you". Not like a guitar, or say a trumpet. Your body is yours, and no one is like you. Personally, I have moved my left knee levers to suit "me". and adjusted the the pedals, and height to fit "me".
Just think of things like that, as your buying a beautiful instrument. Good luck, Ronnie
_________________
Sho-Bud LDG, Martin D28, Ome trilogy 5 string banjo, Ibanez 4-string bass, dobro, fiddle, and a tubal cain. Life Member of AFM local 142 |
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Ben Waligoske
From:
Denver, CO
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Posted 3 Oct 2018 1:32 pm
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Sorry for the delay Anthony, I got caught up in the real world... but if you're narrowing it down to those two particular steels, my inclination would be to go for the Mullen. They are wonderfully made, lightweight, have quick pedal action, and it's a newer guitar with the factory still in full operation, so if you ever have any issues or need parts, Mike at Mullen will take care of you 100%. The BMI would certainly be cool and I listed it mostly because it's a reputable brand in your price range, but you may end up wanting to add at least one lever and if you REALLY want a vintage/vibey steel, I'd be more inclined to recommend a Sho~Bud, Emmons, etc... but that's just personal taste. BTW, Mickey Adams has this Bud listed currently which might be cool too... and he'd be a person I would trust with setup/additions if you wanted 2 more knee levers - https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=335748
FWIW the Discovery is sort of Mullen's answer to the Zum Encore, which is a lightweight, pro-model steel built by Doug Earnest in Missouri. Mullen's are built about 2.5 hours east of me here in Denver, out in Flagler CO. Both excellent guitars and very comparable...
I've never owned a Mullen, but I've played several including a Discovery, and many professional players in Nashville and beyond love them as well... they're great guitars and if it was my money being spent and I wanted something trouble/maintenance free, a Mullen would be high on the list. I did own a Zum Encore for a couple years and that was also a wonderful guitar, but the wait-list is considerably longer on them... mostly just due to a manufacturing/manpower bottleneck, I think, as it's a slightly smaller operation than Mullen.
Feel free to PM me if you have further questions, I'm always happy to help. Good hunting! I know it's a big new world, but you're doing great pard... just buy a guitar and start pickin' - that's the hard part!
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Anthony Krcmar
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 3 Oct 2018 3:45 pm
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| Thank you. Ronnie I appreciate the feedback. All things to consider |
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Anthony Krcmar
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 3 Oct 2018 3:50 pm
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NO problem Ben, I understand the real world sometimes interferes! I appreciate all of your insights. I agree. I am very interested in The Mullen. And yes its a big plus that they are still around but I havent heard back form him yet as I had a couple specific questions.
I saw one on ebay which looked similar and they described it with the back coming apart and needed to be glued? I wanted to see if this was the same ad.
They look alike but the prices were quite different.
Again I appreciate all your help with this!
Anthony |
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Anthony Krcmar
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 3 Oct 2018 6:58 pm
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I think its gone a number of people were inquiring if it were still for sale and no response I saw.. I think the Mullen is gone too... Oh well...
| Ben Waligoske wrote: |
Sorry for the delay Anthony, I got caught up in the real world... but if you're narrowing it down to those two particular steels, my inclination would be to go for the Mullen. They are wonderfully made, lightweight, have quick pedal action, and it's a newer guitar with the factory still in full operation, so if you ever have any issues or need parts, Mike at Mullen will take care of you 100%. The BMI would certainly be cool and I listed it mostly because it's a reputable brand in your price range, but you may end up wanting to add at least one lever and if you REALLY want a vintage/vibey steel, I'd be more inclined to recommend a Sho~Bud, Emmons, etc... but that's just personal taste. BTW, Mickey Adams has this Bud listed currently which might be cool too... and he'd be a person I would trust with setup/additions if you wanted 2 more knee levers - https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=335748
FWIW the Discovery is sort of Mullen's answer to the Zum Encore, which is a lightweight, pro-model steel built by Doug Earnest in Missouri. Mullen's are built about 2.5 hours east of me here in Denver, out in Flagler CO. Both excellent guitars and very comparable...
I've never owned a Mullen, but I've played several including a Discovery, and many professional players in Nashville and beyond love them as well... they're great guitars and if it was my money being spent and I wanted something trouble/maintenance free, a Mullen would be high on the list. I did own a Zum Encore for a couple years and that was also a wonderful guitar, but the wait-list is considerably longer on them... mostly just due to a manufacturing/manpower bottleneck, I think, as it's a slightly smaller operation than Mullen.
Feel free to PM me if you have further questions, I'm always happy to help. Good hunting! I know it's a big new world, but you're doing great pard... just buy a guitar and start pickin' - that's the hard part!
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Ben Waligoske
From:
Denver, CO
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Posted 3 Oct 2018 9:49 pm
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Just hang in there... more will pop up. I’ll keep you posted if I happen upon anything, especially since Mullen’s are pretty common in this hood. In the meantime watch as many videos and soak up as many threads here on the forum as you can! Cheers!
PS, if a Mullen is pushing your buttons, you could always call or email them and see if they might have anything for you that made sense, outside of what’s listed on their website. Certain nearly new or slightly used older steels come back to them from time to time, and you’d be getting an “as new†guitar before it leaves their shop. Or they may have financing options... Might be worth a phone call...
Best,
-b |
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Anthony Krcmar
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 4 Oct 2018 6:56 am
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| Thanks for the advice Ben, I will keep a look out and if you see anything feel free to pass it along. What did you think of the BMI you sent the link on? |
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Ben Waligoske
From:
Denver, CO
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Posted 4 Oct 2018 7:40 am
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That BMI I’m sure would also be a fine guitar! 3x3 will take you a long ways. As others mentioned, really any pro model from a reputable brand should be just fine for you to start your playing journey.
Bonuses with that BMI are that it’s a reputable seller, and other forum members have chimed in mentioning the quality of the guitar. Plus he’s taking reasonable offers, so you might get a nice deal if you negotiate a bit. |
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Anthony Krcmar
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 4 Oct 2018 7:31 pm
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| Still trying to get a reply on the BMI. We'll see what happens |
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