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Post new topic 3 Vintage Steels I Almost Lost Due to Lack of Research
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Author Topic:  3 Vintage Steels I Almost Lost Due to Lack of Research
C. E. Jackson


Post  Posted 11 Sep 2018 2:10 pm    
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GIBSON EH-185N (v.2) 8 STRING ES-300 pu NATURAL: c. 1941
Gibson Only Shipped 2 of These Beautiful Natural Finish Steels



I really liked the looks of this steel, and only learned after my purchase that it was extremely rare.
In his book, Duchossoir shows a photo of this instrument and states, "An exceedingly rare eight-
string EH-185N custom-built in 1941 with a natural finish and a gold-painted Hyblum metal plate."

Since I did not know that only 2 were made before Duchossoir's book, it was by luck that I liked and
purchased this rare steel.



1940 GIBSON EH-185N (v.2) 6 STRING ES-300 pu
Gibson Only Shipped 7 of These Beautiful Natural Finish Steels







The Hyblum plate had been originally cut for the C.C. pickup in earlier EH-185 steels. The plate was re-cut for
this modified steel, and a chrome plate with ES-300 pickup was installed before shipment from the factory. I
purchased it from the son of the original owner, who purchased it new.

When I first learned this steel was for sale, I traveled to a town near Chicago to inspect it. The original owner's
son allowed me to remove the Hyblum plate and look inside. I found that the Hyblum plate had initially been cut
for the U-Magnet PU (a/k/a Charlie Christian PU). I declined to purchase the steel, thinking that it was modified
after leaving the factory. After returning home I did additional research and found that the modification including
the chrome plate and ES-300 PU was factory installed. I quickly called the original owner's son, and purchased
the steel. Another vintage collector called me almost immediately willing to purchase from me after the son told
him that he had sold to me (he had also done his research).

Gibson records indicate that 4 of the 6 string EH-185N models were shipped and records suggest 3 additional were
shipped later. Records do not indicate whether or not all had recut Hyblum plates with ES-300 PUs and with
chrome plates. I almost missed this unique steel.

The tone is great and it is a pleasure to play.

Here is a song played on this steel.
MOCKIN' BYRD HILL



GIBSON 1939 EH-185 (v.1a) 8 STRING C.C. PICKUP
Gibson only shipped 10 EH-185 8 String Steels.



This instrument was ordered directly from Gibson by original owner, George "Hula" Hines, a professional musician,
with knob locations as shown. These facts were verified to me by his son, Larry Hines. This model has a U-magnet
pickup, a.k.a. "Charlie Christian Pickup", and metal insert painted glossy black.

I would have missed this unique steel with customized knob locations (maybe 1 of a kind) if I had not tracked down
the original owner's son and received confirmation that it was ordered from the factory with different knob locations
from original design.

Purchase of these 3 steels taught me to do research when it is possible that the factory has made special changes
before shipment.

Additional information on these 3 steels can be found in "GIBSON ELECTRIC STEEL GUITARS: 1935-1967"
By A. R. Duchossoir.

If any of you have had similar experiences, please feel free to share your experiences.

C. E. Jackson Smile
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Michael Butler


From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 11 Sep 2018 2:45 pm    
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very, very interesting.
thank you.

play music!
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Jack Hanson


From:
San Luis Valley, USA
Post  Posted 11 Sep 2018 6:50 pm    
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Truly magnificent instruments! Thanks for sharing, Mr. Jackson.
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C. E. Jackson


Post  Posted 13 Sep 2018 9:09 am    
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Jack and Michael, thanks for your comments.

My reason for making this post was my hope that others
who have a question about modifications to a vintage
steel will be encouraged to try to determine whether the
modifications were made at the factory or by a previous
owner, before making a purchase.

C. E. Jackson Smile
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Jim Sliff


From:
Lawndale California, USA
Post  Posted 25 Sep 2018 3:41 pm    
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Duchossoir's Gibson Steel guitar book covering 1935-67 has excellent pictures and is a good resource for determining originality of some specific models. They may not be quite as rare as he claims though; Gibson's production records are spotty and historically his books have not been all that accurate. But it's still a good Gibson specific resource when it comes to more obscure models.

It should be noted that only a few Gibson steels are highly valued, however; these models fall into the same general range as some of Epiphone's high-end steels from the same period, and well below many Fender and Rickenbacher steels. Oddly, while Gibson vintage 6-string guitars are usually at or near the top of the vintage heap price-wise, their steels have never been valued the same way - but they do make good utility instruments.

The most highly-valued Gibson steels are also very difficult (nearly impossible!) to find in original condition - the 1956-60 Ultratones with a PAF humbucking pickup. Not all the Ultratones have PAF''s; the pickup is hidden under a cover and the instrument has to be inspected to verify pickup type.

But because of the value of "loose" PAF's (roughly $3,000 - higher depending on condition) they are usually removed from Ultratones and used primarily to replace missing pickups or newer pickups that have been installed in '57-60 Les Pauls (mostly the very valuable '58-60 sunburst models).

With an original 'burst commonly fetching $350k+ even a knowingly-replaced PAF installed to restore a 'burst to original specs can easily make a difference of tens of thousands of dollars in guitar value.

So if you stumble on an Ultratone and it has a humbucking pickup with a PAF sticker, hold onto it or contact a reputable vintage dealer before selling it.

Just one more example of the wacky things that happen in the vintage guitar world!
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1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
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Lee Holliday


From:
United Kingdom
Post  Posted 25 Sep 2018 9:36 pm    
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I saw a clip of Joe Bonamassa recently where he describes that he keeps a stock of 50,s lap steels for when he breaks things like the plastic jack socket plates. I guess the other parts like pots, tuners and pickups also come in handy.

Lee
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C. E. Jackson


Post  Posted 26 Sep 2018 6:47 am    
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MY ONLY GIBSON ULTRATONE STEEL
Since Ultratones were mentioned in Jim's post, I decided to post a photo of the only
Ultratone which I have in my vintage steel guitar collection. It was purchased from
a reputable and respected vintage dealer, and I also had another reputable and
respected vintage dealer give me an appraisal, which I frequently do.




GIBSON ELECTRIC STEEL GUITARS 1935-1967 BY A. R. DUCHOSSOIR
My opinion regarding Duchossoir's book is as follows. I hope that my opinion is not biased due to the
fact that Duchossoir contacted me and requested photos for approximately a dozen of my vintage
steels to include in his book. I have had the opportunity to compare information from his book with
information from 4 additional Gibson vintage experts. He has a high degree of accuracy, although not
perfect. Several of the Gibson vintage experts have had the opportunity to examine Gibson records.
Also, I have several other references on vintage Gibson steels as comparisons to Duchossoir.

I highly recommend Duchossoir's book as a reference to anyone how collects vintage Gibson steels.

C. E. Jackson Very Happy
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Jon Zimmerman

 

From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 26 Sep 2018 8:04 am     Early Gibson examples
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Great stuff out of the distant past, C.E. Let's remember that our nation was well into the throes of the Great Depression during this era, and those makers who managed to struggle onward would offer customers any type of "extras" to make a sale.. all that was needed was a letter or a Western Union mssg. They were also involved in improving fidelity and reliability of amplification as well, trying out all sorts of new concepts. Very much like the so called "custom shop" offerings of today's makers. A very dramatic push in this time period where an outfit could slip out onto the thin ice of a bankruptcy disaster quickly and finally. Thanks for all you do, C.E.
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C. E. Jackson


Post  Posted 27 Sep 2018 5:41 am    
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Thanks to Jim, Lee, and Jon for their comments.

Jon, I grew up in the latter part of the Great Depression,
and remember many of the hardships our family and
friends experienced. I used to admire the publications put
out by Gibson and hoped one day I would own one of their
Gibson Console Grande Steels. However, it took me many
years after graduating from high school and college before
I could afford any new electric steels. Fortunately, my
Father gave me a Silvertone from Sears for Christmas in
1949, my first electric steel. Also, your personal comment
regarding me is appreciated.

C. E. Jackson Very Happy
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