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Post new topic Sho~Bud 6139 tuning instability help
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Author Topic:  Sho~Bud 6139 tuning instability help
Marc Jenkins


From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Post  Posted 23 Aug 2018 10:15 pm    
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I’ve been playing a lot lately, and noticing (possibly also remembering) that my 6139 is fairly unstable, tuning-wise. I sat in with some friends on Monday night, and after 2 songs the A pedal raise on the 5th string was really flat, and the B pedal raise on string 6 was crazy sharp! I checked tuning between every song, and those two strings in particular were going all over the place. Band was pretty loud (and pretty rock) so it was tricky to hear myself when playing support in stuff too, making it harder.

Funnily enough, at an outdoor gig in damp and cold 55 degree weather 2 nights before, tuning held much better, though I was paying very minimalist stuff.

Anyway! Any suggestions besides changing strings and cleaning the changer for helping stability? This particular Bud has rack and barrel on pedals and RKL, barrels behind two hole pullers on the rest.

Thanks in advance!
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Dan Beller-McKenna


From:
Durham, New Hampshire, USA
Post  Posted 24 Aug 2018 2:00 am    
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One of the best things I did with my 6139 was wrap the threads of he barrels with a little plumber's tape, especially the changes that were giving me trouble. Play with it: you don't want it to tight so that the barrel can't be adjusted, but a loose and sloppy barrel will start tuning itself when it hits the rack. For that matter, check the barrels on any problematic pulls. A barrel that won't turn easily, or turns too easily, is never going to do the job consistently.

Other possible culprits:

    If the 5th string raise is going flat, make sure the return spring is sufficiently tight.

    Make sure each pull rod has the little washer at the cup end; this provides a consistent surface against the changer raise or lower plate.

    Make sure the cup at the end of the rod is firmly secured; if it moves, it could change the tuning erratically (Bob Metzger recently pointed this out to me). You could use some bonding material or (as I would) just replace the rod. Michael Yahl makes replacements.

    Make sure the rods aren't binding on the racks they go through to reach the active pull. on my 6139, the racks were not placed perfectly in line. Put some lubricant at any contact points along the way for problematic pulls.


I'm sure other folks have more ideas., but these are the things I have addressed to get mine playing pretty stable.


Last edited by Dan Beller-McKenna on 24 Aug 2018 10:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dan Beller-McKenna


From:
Durham, New Hampshire, USA
Post  Posted 24 Aug 2018 2:11 am    
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One more thing: when was the last time the changer was pulled and cleaned? As Ricky Davis and others have pointed out in the past (and probably holds for many all-pull changers), if the raise and lower plates of the fingers aren't stopping on a clean (ideally lubricated) stop plate, they may not tune consistently. Pretty much no way to check and deal with this than to pull the changer.
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Marc Jenkins


From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Post  Posted 24 Aug 2018 8:17 am    
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Thanks so much Dan!
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Ricky Davis


From:
Buda, Texas USA
Post  Posted 24 Aug 2018 8:25 am    
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Great Info Dan; thanks for Sharing.
Ricky
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Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian@austin.rr.com
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Jason Putnam


From:
Tennessee, USA
Post  Posted 26 Aug 2018 7:04 pm    
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This problem also occurs many times due to a user thinking that the barrels need to be lubricated. This might not be the issue unless it was just recently purchased. If this is the case, remove the barrels and clean them with paint thinner or some other solvent to remove the lubrication. Barrels should turn but need to have some friction to keep them from involuntary movement while playing. Good luck!
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Ricky Davis


From:
Buda, Texas USA
Post  Posted 26 Aug 2018 7:29 pm    
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Also good points Jason.
Another idea that I have progressed and have mastered the NON movement of Barrels; IS NO SLACK....ah...ha...
It is very Titus to do; but if you know your tuning and how you like to tune....I make sure the barrel that takes the most pull on any pedal or knee....has NO slack; so as soon as you Touch the pedal or knee; it starts to move. Ya gotta set that string with the stop...and as soon as you fine tune the barrel; then let off the pull, if it moves the open note at all; then give a smidge of throw to stop. Then the other barrel on that; of course will move with a little slack before it starts to move...but NOT AS MUCH as before..ha...and if you use these gauges; you can get REAL close to all pullers/racks...and then you will find almost NO barrels detuning through the night.
Here's my gauges and of course my pedals and knees.
(oh and ooops...I've been using a .015p on 4th string)

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Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian@austin.rr.com
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Marc Jenkins


From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Post  Posted 26 Aug 2018 9:36 pm    
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Jason Putnam wrote:
This problem also occurs many times due to a user thinking that the barrels need to be lubricated. This might not be the issue unless it was just recently purchased. If this is the case, remove the barrels and clean them with paint thinner or some other solvent to remove the lubrication. Barrels should turn but need to have some friction to keep them from involuntary movement while playing. Good luck!


Thanks Jason - I’m sure that the barrels have not been lubricated, but they seem inconsistent in how tight/loose they are. Will be cleaning/checking springs on all of them soon to make sure they’re functioning their best,
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Marc Jenkins


From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Post  Posted 26 Aug 2018 9:39 pm    
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Ricky Davis wrote:
Also good points Jason.
Another idea that I have progressed and have mastered the NON movement of Barrels; IS NO SLACK....ah...ha...
It is very Titus to do; but if you know your tuning and how you like to tune....I make sure the barrel that takes the most pull on any pedal or knee....has NO slack; so as soon as you Touch the pedal or knee; it starts to move. Ya gotta set that string with the stop...and as soon as you fine tune the barrel; then let off the pull, if it moves the open note at all; then give a smidge of throw to stop. Then the other barrel on that; of course will move with a little slack before it starts to move...but NOT AS MUCH as before..ha...and if you use these gauges; you can get REAL close to all pullers/racks...and then you will find almost NO barrels detuning through the night.
Here's my gauges and of course my pedals and knees.
(oh and ooops...I've been using a .015p on 4th string)


That’s interesting Ricky! I’ve always tried to keep some slack on all pulls. I’ll be disassembling soon, and will try this when it goes back together.

Also Ricky, I’m using pulls on my F# strings as compensators, which make the pedal action very stiff at the end. Any advice there?

Thanks!!
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Ricky Davis


From:
Buda, Texas USA
Post  Posted 26 Aug 2018 10:04 pm    
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Yeah Marc; I did that many years ago on my Emmons. I got rid of those compensators simply because of that...I didn't like feeling that at the bottom on the throw(or tension).
To me; I like the 7th string to be in tune with the 5th string in open position. With pedals down; I mainly use that 7th string as a 6th tone; and it will blend if you play more that just the a-pedaled 5th string..ha.
Kinda the same for the 1st string...and if not played with a slow ballad with just the a-pedaled 5th string; you will get by just fine without the compensators....so that is my suggestion...
Ricky
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Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian@austin.rr.com
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Marc Jenkins


From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Post  Posted 26 Aug 2018 10:17 pm    
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Ricky Davis wrote:
Yeah Marc; I did that many years ago on my Emmons. I got rid of those compensators simply because of that...I didn't like feeling that at the bottom on the throw(or tension).
To me; I like the 7th string to be in tune with the 5th string in open position. With pedals down; I mainly use that 7th string as a 6th tone; and it will blend if you play more that just the a-pedaled 5th string..ha.
Kinda the same for the 1st string...and if not played with a slow ballad with just the a-pedaled 5th string; you will get by just fine without the compensators....so that is my suggestion...
Ricky

Thanks again Ricky!
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