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Topic: Will more pedals an knee leavers make you a pro faster? |
Brad Malone
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 29 Jun 2018 6:53 pm |
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| In his Books Swingin' Our Way and "IN the Mood Buddy Emmons used 8 pedals and 7 knee levers...to get the chord voicings he desired. On the C6th he raised his A to Bb, he raised his C to C# and lowered his A to Ab along with the other known changes..it is common for most pro's to do this. |
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Jordan Beyer
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 29 Jun 2018 8:29 pm
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This might have already been mentioned, but I didnt see anything
Being a more newer player (under 3 years), I do not think more pedals and knee levers will not make you a better player (nor professional) faster. My support is this, I started out playing a old msa, great guitar. It had standard emmons, but one thing that bugged me was I could not raise my first string a whole tone to be in unison with my third. The guitar was unable. That I had seen in a lot of newer players (or heard really), in more recent years. I recently purchased an emmons that had the first raised a whole as well as the second raised a half. After getting licks figured out and started using them regulary, I thought, man, that sounds pretty cool
to wrap this up and prove my point, the new change did not make me, myself, my own talent (or lack of it, for a better term) any better. What it did do was give me more options, voicings and a more expressive sound. An audiance who really knows my playing may say, wow, im hearing some new stuff, he must of gotten alot better, but really im using the tools per say to make the most of my ability
Thats all I got, JB |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 30 Jun 2018 7:09 am
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Jordan...
😎😊🤓
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 30 Jun 2018 7:28 am
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Jordan...yep !
Skilled carpenters carry a hammer or two. Really experienced carpenters carry a couple of hammers along with both pneumatic and battery powered nail guns. And the fact of the matter is they are all used to bang nails, just differently, according to the carpenter.
_________________
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jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
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Last edited by Tony Prior on 30 Jun 2018 11:35 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 30 Jun 2018 2:19 pm
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Having been in both camps of your train of thoughts, I agree. I've been a carpenter for well over 40 years and yes, you start out simple. But, you learn to acquire new tools to improve your skill level over the years. I believe it's the same with steel playing also. Remember when you heard a special lick that stuck in your head? And, you thought how did he get that particular phrase? I can't seem to find it on my guitar. Then, you find out that it was achieved using a special pedal and or knee lever and you then went and addd that change to your steel. Voila! You've gotten yourself a new change to use. I think we've all been there. It certainly won't make you a great steel player, but, it'll add to your bag of tricks to use, which, will hopefully help you to progress on your road to mastering a difficult instrument.
However and I've been flamed for this before, if you just don't have the skill and or feel for this instrument, all the pedals and knee levers won't help you at all. It's unfortunate for some. But, there's always hope through perseverance, isn't there?
You and I and many others have seen many changes in the steel world. I would like to see the changes continue, of course, I probably won't adopt them all. I've got enough for now.
So, I guess in what I'm saying is that, more stuff won't make you play like a pro, but, I don't think it would hurt to try. |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 5 Jul 2018 12:26 am
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| Dave Mudgett wrote: |
I also don't think the main issue is whether or not more or less levers have "enough music" in them. I don't think one person on this thread has stated that there's not plenty of music in a basic E9 pedal steel setup, even 3+1.>>
But I think the modern "standard E9" is 3+5 or even 4+5. I think there's a reason for this. IMO, more pedals and levers make some things easier, not harder, and that can make early learning more fun and even productive. |
As a rank novice on PSG had to upgrade the 3+2 to a 3+5 just because it was leaving psg land going overseas. Having no prior experience with psg other than ear-service, I wanted the upgrades incase I stumbled upon the need for more knee levers. Left it to Jim Palenscar to think up the basics on 3 more levers. Did not feel the need for a D psg feeling a single E9 is about as far as I'd want to venture, with basic minimal pedal and lever control.
Getting fast should have little to do with the number of pedals/levers when easier should be the descriptive word. As Dave mentioned.
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YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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Posted 5 Jul 2018 7:19 pm
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I watched a Paul Franklin video the other day, where he demonstrated the deficit of 'feeling' or 'expression' using a pedal compared to using a slant for the same move
Pros can do more with less. The same way a professional racing driver could get around a formula 1 track in an AMC Pacer quicker than I could in an F1 car
just an alternative take on the matter ....
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Bert Brown
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2018 6:57 pm more pedals= faster ?
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| will more stickers make my car go faster ?.... |
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Jay Dee Maness
From:
North Hills, CA
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Posted 22 Jul 2018 1:06 pm sp
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| no. |
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 6 Aug 2018 5:38 am
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| Thanks Tony I agree with you I’m a cabinet maker tools may not make me better craftsmen, but I do need them to get the job done in a timely fashion |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 6 Aug 2018 8:37 am
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If you want to paint like Pollock, you will have problems trying to use Bob Ross's pallette knives.
If you want to paint like Bob Ross, you'll have problems trying to use Rothko's brushes.
We paint by throwing notes and harmonies around. And we'll need certain brushes to get certain looks (or use different brushes on unexpectedly clever ways).
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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john widgren
From:
Wilton CT
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Posted 6 Aug 2018 12:15 pm faster
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No. A million forum opinions wont either.
_________________
Steel Guitar Services:
Live performance and recording. Instruments, repairs and lessons. Fresh bait/discount sushi.
(203) 858-8498
widcj@hotmail.com |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 7 Aug 2018 12:23 am
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| Before I ordered mine, I think Lane advised me to get as many pedals and levers as I could afford, so I wouldn't be wishing I had after it was delivered. I went with that philosophy and got it set up with 9x5 - and am glad i did. I'm not crazy about the 4th E9 pedal but I love the levers (and could think of one or two more I'd like to have). That being said, none of this extra stuff keeps me from trying to do at least an hour a day of right hand exercises as, that is my weakest area at this point. No amount of gadgets is going to substitute for hours and hours of boring practice - but, when I move to the finding chords part of my practice, I sure am happy with my set up. |
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Robert Harper
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 7 Aug 2018 10:34 am More with less
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I watched a player yesterday playing 20 Chords on one fret,YouTube.
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"Oh what a tangled web we weave when we first begin to deceive" Someone Famous |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 7 Aug 2018 3:57 pm Re: More with less
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| Robert Harper wrote: |
| I watched a player yesterday playing 20 Chords on one fret,YouTube. |
The number of chords or notes you play isn't nearly as important as how well you play them. 
Years ago, a friend of mine went to see an Eric Clapton concert. A few days later, he related to me with an excitement I could not replicate, and enthusiasm like I have never seen, that Eric had a stand on stage with 5 or 6 different guitars..."And he played every one of them!!!".
The mind boggles at that sort of accomplishment.
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Kevin Fix
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 7 Aug 2018 4:02 pm
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The answer is still NO... As I said before, the extra knee's and pedals make it fun to explore.....  |
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Robert Harper
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 7 Aug 2018 5:49 pm More Is less
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Donny, I agree. Some of the best playing I have seen is C6, no pedal. They could slant that bar. They knew the neck.
_________________
"Oh what a tangled web we weave when we first begin to deceive" Someone Famous |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 7 Aug 2018 7:57 pm Re: More Is less
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| Robert Harper wrote: |
| Donny, I agree. Some of the best playing I have seen is C6, no pedal. They could slant that bar. They knew the neck. |
Kayton Roberts doesn't need all those pedals and knees.
I need all those pedals and knees because I'm no Kayton Roberts.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Gregory Etchason
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 14 Aug 2018 12:12 pm
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All you need is to look at Buddy's E9 copedent to answer the question. NO. To me the "greats" NEVER overplay.
Overplay simply misses the point. You either you get it or you don't. |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 14 Aug 2018 3:31 pm
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I'm not sure what a "pro" is. If it's somebody with a command of the most licks heard on the radio in the last 30 years, being "creative" sounds highly detrimental. As I am not an E-niney, pull-to-unison dude, a sort-of first set of leading questions would entail:
A) How did HE get that lick, do I add HIS pedal;
B) Can I get that lick some other way?
I think it's safe to say that the evolution of that tuning has been a series of incremental additions. And, not too many subtractions, huh? And while many have been quick to sing the praise of the Almighty E9th: it's versatility, it's range, it's E-Niniestness; but from an outside perspective, even the sing-iest of such praise-singers has gotta admit, that's a pretty darn weird thing. No, it isn't any weirder than the fact that all the white piano keys can have their own line or space upon a written page, but the wierdo notes off the black keys have to share space and behave as amended-upon second-class citizens.
Still; when WAS the last time any steel player sat down, and from scratch, constructed a tuning that would get them the largest possible set of musical jollies in the simplest way? And, the next practice he showed up at, with his new comprehensive set of musical jollies: was he a still a "pro" by the end of band practice?
HA HA HA HA!!!!
oh sorry... but this IS intimately intertwined with the fundamental point of what is a steel guitar FOR:
A) playing other people's licks;
B) Being creative?
C) Who decides what a jolly IS?
In short, this Q gets hairier than an Argentinian polecat in a peach tree in July. Do we need a RATIO; like, what percentage of what IS played on other instruments is defined by the strengths AND limitations* of what's EASY to play on that instrument? And then THAT can't help but drift into the most unspeakable Q of them all:
Is the steel guitar a lousy instrument for composition? 
NOW see what you've done?....   
*(I'm convinced that a large part of the compositional burst of rock "songs" written on guitars is a result of stoned children trying to play licks on the G and B strings that would've been correctly played upon the D & G, and the B & E strings. And verse-vica; A.K.A. how to tweeze b3's, b7's and b5's into everything. Play "Johnny B. Goode.") |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 14 Aug 2018 10:58 pm
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Thanks Dave. This thread was getting kinda boring. You certainly woke it up with that column.
I wonder if Johnie ever thought he would end up with 4 pages worth of commentary on his tongue in cheek question?
I’ll take a stab at one of your questions. It’s an easy one for me. As a friend of mine who continues to tour the world playing steel and guitar says, a “Pro†musician makes their living at it, or did make their living and are now retired from it. Doesn’t matter what style of music, copying licks or creating them, 10 pedals or none - you are just expected to play what is needed.
By that definition, there are probably a lot of “great†players who are not “proâ€, but there probably aren’t many “pro†players who are not “greatâ€. |
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