Old National fingerpicks era

John Goux · From: California, USA

Iâ€™d like to know the era of these National fingerpicks I use. I need a backup set.

Iâ€™ve searched this forum and looked at Dean Hoffmeyers site.

There are used picks on EBay with prices that range all over the place. Before I spend the money Iâ€™d like to be sure of what Iâ€™m getting.

Iâ€™ve tried JF, the new Nationals, Pro Pik, etc.
I keep coming back to these old Nationals as I think I get a warmer tone with them.

Not sure where I got them. I suspect I bought them in the late 70â€™s early 80â€™s when I took up banjo and dobro.

If anyone can help with identification, it will be much appreciated.

John

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Patent was filed 7-20-1928, and granted 12-30-1930. These have been popular since the '30s, but it's only in the last 20-25 years they have become sorta valuable. They used to sell for 15 cents each (when I started playing in the early '60s). National stopped making them for awhile, but when they got up to $25 apiece on the open market, National started remaking them. Still, some people will pay big money ($50 apiece or more on auction sites) for originals in excellent shape. The repros sell now for about $2 each.

Through the years, they made several very subtle changes to the design, finish, and alloy. But to me, they're all pretty much the same.

Larry Hobson · From: Valley Grande (Selma) Al USA

I have a few picks as in the photo and a few more a little different. Is anyone really paying collector price for these? Larry

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Surprisingly...yes! However, the one pictured above is pretty beat up. Also, it's not an "oval 8" one, so it's not one of the ones that are bringing the highest prices. To add, the old National finger picks are the only ones that are bringing high prices. Other brands have not yet attained a "collectible and rare" status.

Larry Hobson · From: Valley Grande (Selma) Al USA

What's an "Oval 8" ?

Tom Dillon · From: La Mesa, California, USA

http://www.deanhoffmeyer.com/nationalpicks/pages/style1a.htm
_________________
Tom Dillon
- MSA Legend, On-Trak, fiddles, mandos

John Goux · From: California, USA

I knew nothing about collectibility of these old picks. I simply gravitated back to them after trying newer picks, because I liked the tone and feel.

I have another pair of older Nationals that I scratched the blade on, while shaping it with the needle nose pliers. I can hear the blade abrasion so I donâ€™t use them.
Those picks(according to Hoffmeyer site), are from mid 1980â€™s or later. This is when they changed the alloy.

Iâ€™ll post a photo of that later National.. You can see the offset hole under USA.

My next favorite finger picks are the JF. Obviously excellent picks, just a little brighter sounding to my ear.
YMMV.

Cheers, John

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

The hole isn't offset, the USA is.

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Bill Cunningham · From: Atlanta, Ga. USA

John,

I never researched or thought much about picks beyond what I liked. I used some kind of Nationals for years (no idea what they were). A few years ago I picked up some Showcase 1941's and liked them better than the Nationals as they seemed a little beefier. They are readily available on the web.

Out of curiosity I just did a search and they are "made on the pre-war National design with German silver nickel". In a pick discussion here a couple of years ago, Tommy White said that he has used Showcase 1941's for years, so I felt was on an ok path. You might want to try a set of them.

YMMV,

Bill
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Bill Cunningham
Atlanta, GA

Andy DePaule · From: Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon

Okay so I like Nationals best and have for a few years been getting them from the Forum page. Bob no longer has them.
Anyone know where to get Nationals picks now? I don't care too much about vintage or collectability...... I just like the way the don't slip off my fingers like most other do.
I'm down to two and a half pairs and not sure what I'll do after they are gone. Rolling Eyes

Thanks

_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project.

Ron Scott · From: Michigan

Elderly music in lansing Mi. https://www.elderly.com/catalogsearch/result/?cat=0&q=national+finger+picks
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Franklin D10 Stereo - 8 and 6 - Black Box-Zum Encore 4 and 5 Nashville 400,Session 400, DD3 for delay ,also Benado Effects pedal.
Steeling with Franklin's..and Zum Encore

Mark McCornack · From: California, USA

Anybody have any thoughts about the Dunlop picks? I started using those when they came on the market and the Nationals went away. You can get different gages as well to fit your personal prefference. They seem OK to me, and actualy seem to be a little more comfortable than the Nats.

Andy DePaule · From: Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon

Thanks Ron,
Just ordered some pairs from them.
Best wishes,
Andy
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project.

Andy DePaule · From: Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon

John De Maille · From: On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.

I've been using Dunlop .025's for years now and the only time they get slippery is when it's very hot and humid out. Otherwise, they stay put.
But, as a backup I've got two sets of Nationals. One set is newer with only the National name on them. The other set is older, but, not that old probably from the 70's. they have the round 8's on them.
However, I still prefer my Dunlops.

Dale Foreman · From: Crowley Louisiana, USA

I have one of the older and one of the newer ones if anyone interested., make an offer for the old one, and the newer is free. Better yet, someone make a donation to the forum. First one
wins?

Dale
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Rittenberry Prestige(2)

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

I have a pair of the pat pend. USA. It's not just the lettering, the holes on all of mine are offset too.

These are from around the late 70's, early 80's. They were personally fitted and shaped by Jeff Newman at one of his classes. I used these until he started offering his JF line. These are not the coveted ones which people used to refer to as the "old greenies" because of the patina I guess the chemical makeup of the alloy caused over time.

There were some National stamped picks late 90's with a pointed blade that, IMO, aren't worth throwing away. I somehow ended up with 2 or 3 pairs of them. Anybody that wants them can have them for the cost of postage.

The ones pictured on Elderly's site are, I believe the same or very similar to the one pictured in John's original post. These are a good .025 or .026 thick and very similar to the most recent JF's that I have.

Those Nationals would be a good replacement for the JF's that everybody is having trouble getting...you just have to do all the shaping yourself.

Elderly also offers these in stainless steel as well as nickel silver and offers cobalt coated nickel silver Nationals that they have plated by an outside source.

Michael Maddex · From: Northern New Mexico, USA

Elderly has some fingerpicks in the Â´National StyleÂ´ that I have been using for years now. They suit me just fine. RonÂ´s link above will take you to them.

As an aside, I had the opposite experience to Andy. I usually like Dunlop Products, but I donÂ´t care for the fingerpicks at all. I find them both uncomfortable and ready to fall off so IÂ´ll stick with the Elderly Clones while available. I guess thatÂ´s one reason, other than gimmicks, why there are so many picks on the market right now.

BTW, I like and use the Dunlop thumbpicks. Go figure! Cool

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"For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert." -- Arthur C. Clarke

Andy DePaule · From: Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon

Me too, I like the National finger picks with the Dunlop thumb pick. I also like a thumb pick called Golden Gate. Very Happy

How about this Dunlop I've had since 1980 when Tom Bradshaw gave me a pair of them as a gift. Now I just save it for old time sake! Rolling Eyes

Hand engraved by Jim Dunlop.
My little boy dropped one down the heating vent in the floor while playing army and didn't tell me for 35 years.
The other I treasured and used until it broke across the width next to the holes last year.
I took it to my favorite jewelry shop in Saigon where a guy there welded it and then buffed it out for free.
You can see the weld in the photo....
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project.

Mark Helm · From: Tennessee, USA

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I like the Dunlops for the thinner gauges and, as far as I'm concerned, they fine me just fine. Very Happy

Erv

Peter Funk · From: Germany

Tom Bradshaw · From: Walnut Creek, California, USA

I'm amazed that some people still have these engraved finger picks. Jim Dunlop approached me before one of Scotty's Conventions (in the early '80s) and showed me about 6 sets (12 picks) that a friend of his had hand-engraved. He asked me what I thought of them. I was honest and told him they were ugly and I didn't think anyone would want to wear them, nor would that pay that much for 35-cent finger picks. He strongly disagreed and told me I could have them, if I sold them for an outrageous price. As I recall, he said as a set, "get $20.00." I told him I'd never sell one set, and I would be embarrassed to ask that amount of money for such gaudy finger picks! Again, he disagreed and told me they would sell like hotcakes.

I took them to the Convention and put them in a small box on my display table. I put a sign on them that read, "Look inside for the most expensive finger picks ever made, $20.00 for a set of two!" I sold them in about 2 hours, mostly to women who wanted them for their husbands! Obviously I had a lot to learn about merchandising! ...Tom

Harry Dove · From: Michigan, USA

Here is the info provided by Elderly.

"POST WWII - There are at least three, possibly four versions of National finger picks with the patent number 1787136, but without the U.S.A. stamped on the front. The first differs from the latter two in several ways, most noticeably by the shape of the numbers 8 and 3. Notice above how the 8 is made up of two oval shapes. Later, the 8 used circles, and the 3 became flat on the top. Upon inspection with loupe, the letters and numbers show irregularities just like on the "Pat. Pend." Nationals, likely the sign of a hand-cut die. The very earliest style of the "oval 8" pick is identical in almost every way to the pre-war "Pat Pend." Nationals, with an identical spoon-shaped blade. A later version of the "oval 8", obviously made from a different die, is comfortable to wear and the blade is usually well-shaped, although not quite as spoon-like and thick as the earlier version. These are wonderful picks, still worn by professional musicians today, and prized highly by collectors." Based on this info if your picks have USA stamped on them, they are not among any of the early made pics.

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