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Topic: Question for advanced and pro players! |
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 11 Jul 2018 12:21 pm |
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I've noticed that some pros occasionally insert a very tiny delay between the two notes when they're playing double stops. And so I ask the question..."Is this intentional?"
You see, when I started playing, I worked very hard to make sure that when I played two notes together, the notes would be picked at exactly the same time. Now, I'm not so sure that that's always the best technique. It seems that sometimes, the sound is a little fuller and more expressive if there's a slight (and I do mean slight) delay between the two notes. I was thinking it's this kind of subtlety that makes players "twinning" sound different than one player playing both notes.
Thoughts? Comments? |
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Tommy Detamore
From:
Floresville, Texas
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Posted 12 Jul 2018 5:24 am
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Great question Donny! The guys I know who use (or used) this technique do (or did) it intentionally. Randy Rinehard was a master of the techinique, and he got it from Buddy Emmons. Bobby Flores does it well, and he got it from Randy AFAIK. I always referred to it as “flamming†the notes, borrowing from a term that normally applies to drum technique.
Lately I have been messing with it more myself. The band I play with started playing Ray Price’s “Another Bridge To Burn†and I am trying to incorporate this technique on the intro. The effect is rather subtle, but the slight timing offset of the notes gives you sort of a pseudo-chiming effect, similar to what happens when you play harmonics on two notes at once. If definitely adds some character and complexity in my mind, and contributes to the “bell-like†sound that is often referred to.
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Tommy Detamore
Quilter Labs, Goodrich Sound, Source Audio, Neunaber Audio, and Stringjoy Authorized Dealer
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www.steelguitartracksonline.com |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 12 Jul 2018 5:42 am
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Tommy - Perhaps you could expand it into a flam-paradiddle!
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2018 7:35 am
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| If you want two notes to have the same tone you can strike them both with the same pick. This is often done with the thumb to get a fatter sound. As a result the two notes in the double stop will have a slight delay between them as they are picked sequentially by the same pick. |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2018 7:59 am
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| Can you post an example (Youtube?) |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 12 Jul 2018 11:39 am
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| Greg Cutshaw wrote: |
| If you want two notes to have the same tone you can strike them both with the same pick. This is often done with the thumb to get a fatter sound. As a result the two notes in the double stop will have a slight delay between them as they are picked sequentially by the same pick. |
Exactly! The move is automatic when you do double-stops with just a thumb pick or a flat pick. But, it requires a deft touch to do it properly on steel when using a pick for each string. I couldn't find any good steel examples, but here's a stellar example of what the the technique sounds like when done on straight guitar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgJ11FzzUkI |
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Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2018 6:11 pm
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I think Jerry Byrd referred to it as a pa-tah technique.
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LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Harlow Dobro |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 12 Jul 2018 10:43 pm
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Pianists do something similar. I suppose it's part of the business of voicing as it makes things sound more 3-dimensional. Emmons was a master of bringing out inner parts.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Dale Rivard
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 13 Jul 2018 1:08 pm
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| Yes Dale, you've got...that's the sound. It's not always that obvious when it's done, but it's still a neat little trick no matter who does it. One more little "arrow in the quiver", so to speak. And one more technique that sometimes goes unnoticed, and is seldom taught. |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 14 Jul 2018 7:27 am
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what I hear is is something similar to picking the first sting and then the C pedal on the 4th string going from a whole tone lower to unison or pick the 3rd string and and raise the 1st string. That 1st string raise was invented I think just for that sound.
I wouldn't call that a double stop.
Hughey used that at the beginning of his solo in "Look at Us".
of course you could just proceed up the neck picking the 1st sting and then slide up on the 4th and so on. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 15 Jul 2018 7:12 am
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| I'm a hack at theory, but I take "double stop" to signify two different notes played (picked) simultaneously. Of course, the two notes need not be on adjoining strings. However, I can't say exactly when it transitions from a "double stop" (done simultaneously) to two separate notes. Maybe there is a time designation, like a 32nd or 64th note, that determines that? Or, it could be that subtleties like that just aren't picked up in standard notation. |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 15 Jul 2018 5:53 pm
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Donny here is a piece I put together for a section in a Richard Linklater Movie soundtrack.
https://youtu.be/Ya1s-HiDxkg
I have that small Pa-Tah in this first section starting the second measure; then 4th measure....both on a walk up harmony scale thing; and a bunch more in the song.
I consider it a texture thing to the two notes picked...as the same timing is a blend and the pa-tah gives it a more character thing to the two notes.
And actually I got it from the days when I had my Hawaiian Band "The Island Echoes"...and as I listened and learned so much from the sounds and delivery of Jerry Byrd...that to me; is where I came from for my playing.
Ricky
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Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Jeffrey McFadden
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 16 Jul 2018 9:27 am
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Wouldn't one simply think of the traditional music concept of the "grace note" here?
I think that for those of a certain level of skill, if you can hear it they wanted you to hear it.
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Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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